JBovier ELS; Epiphone MM-50 VN; Epiphone MM-40L; Gretsch New Yorker G9310; Washburn M1SDLB;
Fender Nashville Deluxe Telecaster; Squier Modified Vintage Cabronita Telecaster; Gretsch 5420T; Fender Tim Armstrong Hellcat: Washburn Banjo B9; Ibanez RB 5string; Ibanez RB 4 string bass
Pedalboard for ELS: Morley Cry baby Miniwah - Tuner - EHX Soul Food Overdrive - EHX Memory Toy analog Delay
Fender Blues Jr Tweed; Fender Greta;
But then there are also songs with “hiccups” too. Listen to the old recording of Larry Sparks doing “Smokey Mountain Memories” the changes in the first verse are different from all the following verses. My guitar player simply cannot hear the slight rhythmic “hiccup” associated with the chord changes. Of course, he does not hear the fact that the chords are different either so, I just quit trying to sing it with him.
This is also a guy who sometimes forgets what time signature a song he’s written is in too. I love him like a brother but sometimes....
Timothy F. Lewis
"If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett
We have a guy like that too. He's not writing his own songs, but the ones he does, he knows the words very well and has a great 'country' voice.
I can forgive it when he kicks off 'White Dove' in 4-4- time. Maybe a momentary brain fart. But it happens when he starts 'Waltz Across Texas' too. And there's a pretty good clue in the title of that one.
"I play BG so that's what I can talk intelligently about." A line I loved and pirated from Mandoplumb
My advice is don't play with people who don't bring you joy.....Life is too short. I am very selective about who I play with any more. Being able to count is a pre-requisite
AKA "golfunit"
"I play BG so that's what I can talk intelligently about." A line I loved and pirated from Mandoplumb
2012 Weber Bitterroot F5.
Lester "Roadhog" Moran!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZUr_PJ0nec
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJAbWk8od74
This, on the other hand, is the complete opposite of "bad rhythm"! … (Ottopasuuna, from Finland, the best country in the world!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhU3HY6Pbpk
I am still only seeing black boxes for all youtube postings, so I am including the URLs for those seeing the same nothings can go directly to the YouTube pages.
Niles H
-- Don
"Music: A minor auditory irritation occasionally characterized as pleasant."
"It is a lot more fun to make music than it is to argue about it."
2002 Gibson F-9
2016 MK LFSTB
1975 Suzuki taterbug (plus many other noisemakers)
[About how I tune my mandolins]
[Our recent arrival]
When I was in school (40 years ago) I played in a GB (general bull____) band for weddings, bar mitzvahs, anniversaries, etc. doing covers. We could always tell what kind of night we were going to have by the end of the first song, based on audience clapping-along dynamics. Random off-beat= general GB night. Regular measured clapping on the 1st and 3rd beat as opposed to the 2nd and 4th = terrible, horrible, nightmare gig dominated by men in grey slacks held up with white patent leather belts, and tassled loafers asking for "Alfie".....
Moral is, bad rhythm in band members can be worked on or eliminated. Bad/no rhythm by the audience is a really really bad experience.
JBovier ELS; Epiphone MM-50 VN; Epiphone MM-40L; Gretsch New Yorker G9310; Washburn M1SDLB;
Fender Nashville Deluxe Telecaster; Squier Modified Vintage Cabronita Telecaster; Gretsch 5420T; Fender Tim Armstrong Hellcat: Washburn Banjo B9; Ibanez RB 5string; Ibanez RB 4 string bass
Pedalboard for ELS: Morley Cry baby Miniwah - Tuner - EHX Soul Food Overdrive - EHX Memory Toy analog Delay
Fender Blues Jr Tweed; Fender Greta;
Hmm, my funniest memory of the Smothers Bros was Tommy playing in one key and singing in another. One of the bands we play with has such trouble moderating their volume that my wife, who sings and plays guitar normally very nicely, has done that accidentally once or twice. Great laughs!!!
-- Don
"Music: A minor auditory irritation occasionally characterized as pleasant."
"It is a lot more fun to make music than it is to argue about it."
2002 Gibson F-9
2016 MK LFSTB
1975 Suzuki taterbug (plus many other noisemakers)
[About how I tune my mandolins]
[Our recent arrival]
Well to be fair, where Roadhog and the boys really shine is in live performance, alas too seldom preserved. But here they are on the Ralph Emory show (music starts at 2:45 for those who want to skip past the band introductions):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPMbzjunjIQ
My theory (yes, another) is that European-descent folks who clap on the 1 and 3 don't think that they're clapping on the 1 and the 3 – they're feeling the song in 2/4 time, and they're clapping on the 1.
Charley
A bunch of stuff with four strings
People who have bad rhythm and don't admit it is a problem for the "play by ear, this is how I learned it crowd". I am one of those people who have a folk, bluegrass, country, old time background but I live with a classical musician who plays full time in a concert band. When you read standard notation and follow a conductor it is all about counting and playing the music as written. So lets admit that what we're talking about here is a problem associated with a consideration of musical education and practice to a certain rhythmic standard. If you're a street musician like me playing a song with your cohorts is a matter of agreement through a mutual feeling for the beat. People who have bad rhythm and don't admit it is similar to people who can't sing and don't admit it. We must find a tactful way of letting them know without upsetting their delicate sensibilities.
David Hopkins
2001 Gibson F-5L mandolin
Breedlove Legacy FF mandolin; Breedlove Quartz FF mandolin
Gibson F-4 mandolin (1916); Blevins f-style Octave mandolin, 2018
McCormick Oval Sound Hole "Reinhardt" Mandolin
McCormick Solid Body F-Style Electric Mandolin; Slingerland Songster Guitar (c. 1939)
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of political correctness, incompetence and stupidity.
Unless they aren't. Leonard Finseth collected at least one "hot waltz" that was 4/4 time. I don't have enough experience to have figured out the history. But it seems strange to me.
On guitar, I've backed up a couple of waltzes that have an extra beat in the B part. Was more a set dance and the beat was required for the move.
And let's not get into polksas on the main group page. That's an entirely different problem. (And one that I'm not sure I'll ever play to some folks satisfaction. Whether the melody or rhythm.)
Brentrup Model 23, Boeh A5 #37, Gibson A Jr., Big Muddy M-11, Coombe Classical flattop, Strad-O-Lin
https://www.facebook.com/LauluAika/
https://www.lauluaika.com/
https://www.facebook.com/Longtine-Am...14404553312723
From what I've seen, "musical education" and fluently reading standard notation aren't always enough to solve a timing problem. It's one thing to understand the theory. It's something else entirely to apply that theory in one's own playing.
The absolute all-time-worst-ever no-sense-of-rhythm jam-wrecker I've ever heard, has a Master's degree in music and he spent decades teaching music classes to little kids. He understands music theory quite well, and he can instantly locate any note from sheet music on dozens of different instruments, but on everything he plays, his sense of rhythm is atrocious. He cannot learn anything by ear, he has to have the dots, even for simple tunes.
(But he won't tolerate anyone including himself being out of tune - he tunes up his instruments very precisely, with the assistance of high-end digital tuners - guess everyone is good at something!)
Anyway, I don't see an automatic connection between bad timing and "learned everything by ear", vs good timing and "able to read standard notation".
If anything, making the effort to learn something by ear (from a competent well-respected player) ought to make the timing *more* accurate, not less so. That is, assuming the person has the capability to *listen* to their own playing (there, we're back to listening again), and the self-honesty to notice errors and take corrective action.
Obviously the best of both worlds is to combine written notation of some sort, with learning by ear as well - use both. Why not. Why limit oneself to just one source of new musical info. But still, the need to listen, even when playing solo... even more important in a group situation.
Even without training in music theory or the ability to read written notes, it's helpful to just count. 1, 2, 3, 4. Or 1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and. Whatever. Pretty basic, not complicated.
And of course when a person eventually acquires sufficient familiarity with a genre, they can often look at the written notes and get a general idea of what the tune sounds like - timing and all - without even having to pick up an instrument. It's like being able to 'hear' a preview of the music in one's mind, without actually producing any sounds.
Yes.
Yeah, as long as everyone plays in sync, shouldn't be a problem.
From what I've seen, it's impossible. The worst-case ones never get the clue, they don't have the ability to hear themselves and to hear how their wacky playing screws it up for the rest of the group, as far as they're concerned any problems are someone else's fault. Any attempt at delicately "letting them know" (by diplomatic people who are qualified at such things) only results in them developing a 'persecution' complex where they feel that everyone, in every jam or session throughout all time, has it out for them personally.
The solution? I have no idea. A solution might not even be possible for the probably small percentage of people who have an actual neurological disorder of some sort (as I mentioned earlier) - of course it would not be right to feel harshly towards people who have biological/neurological conditions they have no control of, it could happen to anyone as a result of injury or whatever. But that's contrasted with musical slackers who just don't take their music seriously enough to at least try to get it right.
David Hopkins
2001 Gibson F-5L mandolin
Breedlove Legacy FF mandolin; Breedlove Quartz FF mandolin
Gibson F-4 mandolin (1916); Blevins f-style Octave mandolin, 2018
McCormick Oval Sound Hole "Reinhardt" Mandolin
McCormick Solid Body F-Style Electric Mandolin; Slingerland Songster Guitar (c. 1939)
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of political correctness, incompetence and stupidity.
Eh you’d better get the red pen out on whatever book of definitions you read that in.
you could do one of those chevron things and write in 3/2, 3/4, 4/4, 5/8, 6/8, 8/4 & 11/4. I’m sure there are others, but those would cover most.... except maybe the hesitation waltz which I always think of as 3/4 with a stumble into 4/4 & strauss used to run some of his over a steady 2/4 or 4/4 beat. And it’s not just about shoehorning triple time into another time signature, some waltz dances run a continuous four or five step division & still make it dance like a waltz, they’re normally ones which sound more breathless and without a gap or heavy step.
Eoin
"Forget that anyone is listening to you and always listen to yourself" - Fryderyk Chopin
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