Black Ice Tuner unscrewed /falling out ................... again

[Sheephead Shawn]

May I vent pleaseI love my Weber Black Ice, the sound is more than I could ever ask for, the playability, the look, but now for the 2nd time my tuner has come unscrewed...……… needing to get it glued.
Continually I am told it's no big deal etc.....

but I've never had a problem with any instrument I've owned, ……………… both clunkers and middle / high end...………. mandolin and guitar, fiddle and bass, electric / acoustic.

It's the freaking hassle of going somewhere to get it glued and "doing without" it while waiting.

In the past I expressed that it shocks me that a$4K mando has Grover tuners...…. and was told my mandolin was not really high end...……….

I appreciate that the mandolin world is different, with Ratliff an such along with Dudenbosel etc........
but holy crap I feel mine should be standard with Waverly...…………

Just saying.

[MikeEdgerton]

Are you talking about the screw that holds the tuner button on? They come loose on Waverly tuners too.

[pops1]

Put a little fingernail polish on the threads of the screw and put it back on, it will stay. If this is a problem I would do it to all the button screws.

[sblock]

Methinks thou doth protest too much.

Yes, the tuner button screws come loose on Waverly's, too. Use some Loctite (r) or fingernail polish on them. And no, sorry to say, the Weber Black Ice model of yours (at $4k) is not THAT high end of a mandolin, IMO. It's a very nice mandolin, mind you, but there are many custom luthiers out there who can make a better mandolin -- although you will also pay a much higher price, on average. You should not necessarily expect Waverly tuners on a $4K mandolin. Besides, the problem you're having is pretty common, and you won't be "without it" as it gets fixed for more than a few minutes. Or, you can order a new screw (if you lost it) and just fix it yourself in about 30 sec.

[multidon]

Please don’t be discouraged by those telling you that your Weber isn’t really “high end”. It all depends on your point of view. To the guy who can only afford the 50 dollar Rogue, it’s high end. To the guy that plays a Loar signed F-5 and uses his Dudenbostel as his beater, it’s entry level. So what? Bottom line is, it’s a REALLY nice mandolin. My main mandolin is a Bitterroot F, and nothing I have ever played has, to my ears, equaled the tone. There have been a couple that came very close. One of them was actually less expensive, an Eastman 915. Very impressive. I could be very happy with that one. But getting back to your Weber, Bruce has always had the reputation for packing lots of value in his instruments. So think of it as an $8000 Mandolin that only cost you $4000!

As far as the tuners go, the Grover 309s are about as good as you’re going to get without spending a lot more money. Weber knows that. They do their job well. And by not using higher end tuners they are able to offer a lower bottom line price. Also there is a law of diminishing returns with cost versus performance on tuners. If they function the way they are supposed to, why pay 4 times as much for them?

I have never had that problem, but the fingernail polish option sounds reasonable. Clear, of course. But be careful using it around your instrument. It is very similar to lacquer and has similar solvents. It will mess up your finish if it goes where you don’t want it.

[sliebers]

I've got a set of Wavely's and the screws constantly come loose and rattle while playing. I keep meaning to put a dab of loctite on them, but I always seem to forget to buy some. You don't get much more high end than Waverly. I've found the Grovers perform really well for the price.

[MikeEdgerton]

As much as I wish that my Gibson F5G had come with Waverly tuners, it didn't and it wouldn't as it was basically a 4K mandolin and even the more expensive Fern model didn't come with them. You can however add them and if you've got a little courage and some basic skills you can do it yourself. I did.

[George R. Lane]

Please don’t be discouraged by those telling you that your Weber isn’t really “high end”. It all depends on your point of view. To the guy who can only afford the 50 dollar Rogue, it’s high end. To the guy that plays a Loar signed F-5 and uses his Dudenbostel as his beater, it’s entry level. So what? Bottom line is, it’s a REALLY nice mandolin. My main mandolin is a Bitterroot F, and nothing I have ever played has, to my ears, equaled the tone. There have been a couple that came very close. One of them was actually less expensive, an Eastman 915. Very impressive. I could be very happy with that one. But getting back to your Weber, Bruce has always had the reputation for packing lots of value in his instruments. So think of it as an $8000 Mandolin that only cost you $4000!

As far as the tuners go, the Grover 309s are about as good as you’re going to get without spending a lot more money. Weber knows that. They do their job well. And by not using higher end tuners they are able to offer a lower bottom line price. Also there is a law of diminishing returns with cost versus performance on tuners. If they function the way they are supposed to, why pay 4 times as much for them?

I have never had that problem, but the fingernail polish option sounds reasonable. Clear, of course. But be careful using it around your instrument. It is very similar to lacquer and has similar solvents. It will mess up your finish if it goes where you don’t want it.

I agree with Don. To him it is a high end model and let's just leave it at that. As afar as Grover tuners are concerned, the ones that came on my Bruce Weber, built Yellowstone were never up to par. The lower A string always seemed to go a little flat and the tuners always seem to easy to turn, not enough resistance. A few months ago I had Bruce install a set of Rubners. These are a great improvement and the only cost me $100.00. Just saying.

[Ivan Kelsall]

From the OP - ".... my tuner has come unscrewed.". ???. I think a bit more clarity on 'exactly what' has come unscrewed is needed. 'Tuners' don't come unscrewed - the screws that hold the tuner 'buttons' on might come unscrewed / the screws holding the tuner plates to the rear of the headstock might come unscrewed.

That the OP mentions - "...going somewhere to get it glued and "doing without" it while waiting" That would seem to imply that the tuner button is loose & needs gluing on. The Weber ''Black Ice'' is one of Weber's premium models,as is my Weber "Fern". My 'Fern' has Schaller tuners with 'glued on' buttons - is this what the OP means ??. Tightening up a loose screw or 2,wouldn;t require 'going' anywhere !,
Ivan

[Br1ck]

Regarding valuation, one man's high end is a grand, another's is ten grand, another's a hundred. Where in the scheme of things do you want to spend $500? It's up to you. Builders have to gauge at what price consumers no longer want to pay out.

Pretty much any tuner does the job. Some do it more elegantly than others. If you want Waverlys, buy them. Nice mandolin though.

[sliebers]

The interesting thing about this thread and many like it is we don't get a response from the OP to find out what the problem really was.
It kind of morphs into it's own thing. Was it a loose button screw, or did the button come off as glued to a shaft like Schallers? Either way, I can't imagine having to take it to someone and have downtime while it was being glued. No disrespect intended.

[sblock]

I certainly didn't intend to provoke a mini-debate about what a "high end" mandolin really is! And I wasn't the one to introduce that term, either. Furthermore, I wholeheartedly agree with those of you who pointed out that one man's clunker can be another man's treasure.

But what I still don't understand is why the OP was expressing his "shock" (that was his word!) that his $4k Weber didn't come equipped with Waverly tuners -- which was ironic too, since Waverlys can, and do, exhibit the same sorts of problems with occasionally loose tuner button screws. The current price of a set of Waverlys is around $450, i.e., about 10% of the cost of his entire instrument. The economics are just not there to do that, and so the answer to his complaint should be self-evident. Besides, as others have correctly pointed out, other types of tuners do the job just fine, and cost substantially less.

So I don't find it the least bit "shocking," myself.

[DHopkins]

A 1924 Gibson Loar is a "high end" mandolin. The rest are just mandolins.

[George R. Lane]

Waverlies now cost $594.00, with shipping.

[MikeEdgerton]

That would be the gold with pearl buttons, right? The nickel with ivoroid or ebony buttons are $469.00 plus shipping and I would suppose tax if applicable.

https://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and...ning_Machines/

[Sheephead Shawn]

<violates forum guidelines>

- Avoid flaming or trolling – posts intended to create discord, antagonize others or create general mayhem. Be polite and courteous at all times. We expect spirited discussions and widely varying opinions that some may even find offensive, but exercise caution. A good rule of thumb is don't say anything on the forum that you wouldn’t say to someone in person.

[George R. Lane]

All of the Webers came with Grover tuners, even the Fern. If you wanted Waverly's it was an upgrade. There are several threads here that tout how good the Grovers are. There are builders who build in the 4K range and do not come with Waverly's. If you want Waverly's then buy a set.

[Sheephead Shawn]

<violates forum guidelines>

- Avoid flaming or trolling – posts intended to create discord, antagonize others or create general mayhem. Be polite and courteous at all times. We expect spirited discussions and widely varying opinions that some may even find offensive, but exercise caution. A good rule of thumb is don't say anything on the forum that you wouldn’t say to someone in person.

[Mandolin Cafe]

<violates forum guidelines>

- Avoid flaming or trolling – posts intended to create discord, antagonize others or create general mayhem. Be polite and courteous at all times. We expect spirited discussions and widely varying opinions that some may even find offensive, but exercise caution. A good rule of thumb is don't say anything on the forum that you wouldn’t say to someone in person.

Suggest you figure out how to fit in here and discuss amicably without hurling insults--or move onto somewhere else on the web that approves of this kind of behavior.

No further warning.

[Chris Pritchett]

I have a Gibson F9 and a Weber Fern, both with Grovers, never had a problem with them. But, a recent self-build using a set of 309's I got from a friend has had issues with the retaining screws on the worm gear shaft coming loose - go figure. Loctite seems to have solved it.

[Timbofood]

Yep, a tube of Loctite,is cheaper than the energy you are expending posting. It’s not that hard a problem to fix yourself. Fix it and go make some music.
Venting is one thing but, think before you.............
If you’re so tuned up (bad pun, will go to my corner when I’m through) about this, you need to settle yourself down a little and compose your rant. Being upset is one thing and, I understand the frustration, it can all be fixed just slow down and think the problem through. It’s not worth the rise in blood pressure. Well, not to me.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Tim's correct - All we need to understand is 'what specifically' is coming unscrewed - we assume a 'screw' ??.

To that end - there are 3 types of possible culprit :- 1) A screw holding a tuner button in place. 2) A screw holding the tuner backplate in place. 3) The screw holding the tuner gear wheel in place (can that happen ?). But Shawn states. :- "...my tuner has come unscrewed...……… needing to get it ''glued'' That's what we don't understand - a simple expanation is all that's required - please ?,
Ivan