Loar LM-110

[rfd]

Wanting a "beater" mando for knock-about use I did armchair 'net searches of what's out there, noting spex and prices. My only main criteria was it had to be a model A with a solid top. The generous A shape is typically able to offer a bit more mid-range tone and output, a solid top will typically provide better good vibrations, and the A's are generally cheaper. An A is more 18th/19th century "period correct" for some of the rendezvous gatherings I attend, as well.

Anyhoo, the offshore LM-110 got my attention and I bought it online at MF, at the sale price plus their "backstage bux", and that came to $180/shipped ($250 normal price everywhere). It arrived today and after just looking it over I replaced the strings, tuned it up, adjusted the bridge for both string height and intonation - there was no need to mess with the truss rod or do an L&C, but I could do either if need be. I also added a small strap button at the neck heel and braided a strap out of butcher string.

I've had a few other Loars, and as expected the fit and matte finish were quite good. Bone nut and a good ebony saddle. The tuners aren't in the smooth Rubner class, but they're not bad at all.

The action and playability are now quite good, on par with my Breedlove Quartz FF - though the nut isn't as wide as the Quartz, no big deal. The tone suits my eclectic music tastes - not nasal or boxy, just mellow nice. Good volume, projection, and resonance. Since the honeymoon has just begun, I have no concerns to report. It'll be interesting to see how well it can handle temperature and humidity swings, as well as the knocks of travelling about at various outdoor venues.. As with most acoustic stringed instruments, it should get better with lots of playing time, and I expect both to occur. This is probably one of the better starter mando's, particularly if sale priced. For now, I'm quite pleased.

[LastMohican]

Wanting a "beater" mando for knock-about use I did armchair 'net searches of what's out there, noting spex and prices. My only main criteria was it had to be a model A with a solid top. The generous A shape is typically able to offer a bit more mid-range tone and output, a solid top will typically provide better good vibrations, and the A's are generally cheaper. An A is more 18th/19th century "period correct" for some of the rendezvous gatherings I attend, as well.

Anyhoo, the offshore LM-110 got my attention and I bought it online at MF, at the sale price plus their "backstage bux", and that came to $180/shipped ($250 normal price everywhere). It arrived today and after just looking it over I replaced the strings, tuned it up, adjusted the bridge for both string height and intonation - there was no need to mess with the truss rod or do an L&C, but I could do either if need be. I also added a small strap button at the neck heel and braided a strap out of butcher string.

I've had a few other Loars, and as expected the fit and matte finish were quite good. Bone nut and a good ebony saddle. The tuners aren't in the smooth Rubner class, but they're not bad at all.

The action and playability are now quite good, on par with my Breedlove Quartz FF - though the nut isn't as wide as the Quartz, no big deal. The tone suits my eclectic music tastes - not nasal or boxy, just mellow nice. Good volume, projection, and resonance. Since the honeymoon has just begun, I have no concerns to report. It'll be interesting to see how well it can handle temperature and humidity swings, as well as the knocks of travelling about at various outdoor venues.. As with most acoustic stringed instruments, it should get better with lots of playing time, and I expect both to occur. This is probably one of the better starter mando's, particularly if sale priced. For now, I'm quite pleased.

Sounds like a great fit! Enjoy!

[ukenukem]

Thanks! I have that one on my radar. Already own the LM-310F and it is a nice player.

[rfd]

I had an LM-310F, a nice F for its price, but I now think that the A version is the better value - and tone/volume.

[multidon]

I really feel the need to chime in here with a dissenting opinion. I have given my opinion on these instruments before on this forum and I guess I am forced to give it again, lest some dear reader buys one of these having only read positive revues.

I have played several examples of the LM-310 F , at several different stores. They have all sounded universally horrible to my ears, with zero resonance. Oh, they produce the fundamental notes alright I guess, but so will a 2x4 if you string it up. Some of the stores I played them in were Guitar Centers, where apparently they did away with their entire line of mandolins except this one. And of course, they famously do no set up on these mandolins. Before playing them I had to tune them and adjust the bridge myself. So, being kind, I thought that maybe they might sound better if they had a truly complete set up, not just the quick and dirty one I did just to make it playable. It is unfortunate that people are appantly buying these things not set up, and taking them home untuned and not set up. All of the ones I played had unrealistically high action. I predict we’ll see a lot of these on the used market as folks get frustrated and give up on them.

Anyways, fast forward to just a couple of days ago, when I visited a brick and mortar music store. This store carries a lot of fine quality guitars. They are an authorized dealer for Martin, Taylor, Gibson, Fender, and PRS. Guitars costing over 1000 dollars are the norm, and many models costing 2-3 thousand and more were on display. When I got to the mandolin section, they had exactly 4 on display, all F styles two “Honey Creek” Loar LM-310s, a Savannah, and a Rogue. I played both Loars. They were both tuned and set up perfectly, with low easy action. I was not surprised, since I know the tech at this store personally and he is quite good. So they were both comfortable, and easy playing. But they still had that same tone quality I experienced before. But instead of hard to play bricks with strings, they were easy to play bricks with strings. I played the Rogue and the Savannah, and I thought they both sounded better than the Loars, even the Savannah which I knew to be all laminate, including the top.

So why would a music store carry only mediocre mandolins surrounded by 100s of fine guitars? I have given that a lot of thought. The conclusion I have reached is this: the mandolin market right now is being driven by guitar players who are looking to branch out. They will spare no expense to get the best gitar they can find, they will sweat bullets fussing about every picky little detail about their primary instrument, but they don’t think in anywhere close to the same way about a secondary instrument. They want an F style, but they don’t want to spend a lot of money. They want the looks but they don’t care about the substance. The marking folks at Music Link have clearly done their due diligence on their market research. They know their customer base. And the Loar LM-310 is aimed straight at that market. In fact, all four of them were. None of them cost more that 400 dollars, in a store filled with 3000 Les Pauls and such. They had just had a Taylor Road Show, and they had several special guitars the rep had left, 2500-4000 dollar examples. And these mandolins right next to them. The only way all of this makes any sense is that the market for mandolins, or at least mandolin shaped objects, is as I describe.

I freely admit I have never played the A style version, but being from the same line I would expect similar. So, with all due respect to those who have purchased a Loar “Honey Creek” and are satisfied with it, I feel I must dissent.

[rfd]

there are 4 tenets for acoustic fretted stringed instruments, and perhaps similar things in life, ranked in my order of priority - playability, sound, build, cost.

to expect a $200 offshore mandolin to sound like the right hand of God let alone a $2000 onshore mandolin is, well, pretty silly and clearly pretty obvious. keeping that and the big 4 list above, almost all the offshore boxes will never be a custom made weber or breedlove or <insert yer fave custom high dollar mando>. "value" and "function" mean diff'rent things to diff'rent folks, as obviated by my post and mr. don's post. i'm not defending nor condemning, just telling it like it is. "tone" is to the ears of the beholder, and most of "tone" is actually about playing credibility and not the "value" of the thing being played. LOTS of wonderful music was created on what today we'd call junker instruments. got chops?

[multidon]

Rfd I certainly see your point and respect your opinion. Everyone has their priorities when it comes to instrument choice. For me, the number one priority is sound. I have to like the sound I’m making, otherwise there is no point in my mind. I guess my priorities are in order, sound, playability, build, cost. But they are not equal. Tone is the 800 pound gorilla. Adjustments can be made everywhere else, but not there.

I am actually surprised that you have sound as your #2 if you like this line of instruments. Build (which I admit is pretty good) and cost (which I admit is pretty darned reasonable) seem to be more important to this line. Sound is obviously not the company’s number one priority by any stretch of the imagination.

I say, if you like it, great, enjoy whatever floats your boat. But this forum is for exchange of ideas, I thought my viewpoint was also worthy. Let me add that, IMHO, in this general price range, a Kentucky 150, which is made from 100 percent solid carved woods,is a much better choice. I have played several and the tone is amazing, especially considering the cost. FWIW. YMMV.

[rfd]

all acoustic instruments are WYSIWYG for that thing we call "tone". having built acoustic fretted instruments from ukes to mandos and flatops, tone is a cr@p shoot that's hit or miss. anyone who thinks otherwise don't know squat about acoustics.

for me, tone will always take a backseat to playability. if i can't play it well because there are issues that won't allow me to tweak the action or intonation, or there are physical issues such as neck back shape, frets, scale length, nut, etc. don't matter how wonderful it sounds if she don't have my kinda playability, then it's of no value to me. this is not unlike an acoustic guitar that desperately needs a neck reset and can only be played slide.

I am actually surprised that you have sound as your #2 if you like this line of instruments

- i never said that, read my post again. my quartz FF has its own sound/tone, with a rich resonance that's not there with the lm-110. playability is another matter.

i see folks all the time dissing the offshore acoustics. it gives me an insight into their thinking and where they're coming from. and personally, having been in this music game/business for over 60 years, i could give a fig for their lacking.

[multidon]

Rfd- interestesting that you use the term “what you see is what you get” referring to tone, which can’t be seen.

Tone is hit or miss? Anyone who thinks otherwise doesn’t know squat? Well. I suppose that means the good folks who make Collings guitars and mandolins, which have a well deserved reputation for consistently excellent tone, don’t know squat. And the good folks at Martin, whose guitars, remarkably, from the least expensive to the top of the line, all display the distinctive Martin sound, well, they don’t know squat either. And all the good folks here on the Cafe’ who advise people that the best way to get the real Gibson sound is to buy a Gibson, because many come close, but it’s hard to duplicate, well, they must not know squat either. Or could it be that, maybe, just maybe, good tone in an acoustic instrument is something that can be deliberately and systematically planned for, though design, construction, and material choice? Now, I’m not saying there isn’t variability, obviously there is. Each instrument is an individual, with so many variables in the construction process. But good instrument makers with well deserved reputations strive mightily to make instruments that sound consistently good. I’ve know makers of acoustic instruments who will even take a band saw to a completed instrument that didn’t turn out quite right rather than sell it. These folks actually plan, actively and meticulously, to achieve consistently good soundingi struments. To dismiss this process as “hit and miss” is very disrespectful, in my opinion.

You claim that I misquoted you. I will let our readers read my quote of you saying sound is you number 2 “tenet”, and your original post, and judge for themselves whether I misquoted you or not.

You hint that I “diss” “offshore acoustics”. How then do you explain that I have recommended the Kentucky 150 on this forum multiple times, too many to count? Made in China last time I checked. The only instruments I “diss” are the bad ones, regardless of where they are made. I’ve seen worthless junk made in USA, too.

I may not have been in music for 60 years, but it has been a good many years. I’ve been involved with stringed instruments for almost 40 years now, and I think I’ve picked up an insight or two. I have had my posts “liked” 1,177 times, and I feel like I’ve helped a lot of our fellow musicians here. I am happy that I had an opportunity to post my thoughts on the Loar “Honey Creek” instrument’s here, and our readers can read your posts, and read mine, and make up their own minds about whose advise seems best and what instrument to buy. That’s what open discourse is all about.

I will just leave it there. I have said everything I have to contribute on this subject, therefore this will be my last post on this thread. Now, if you will excuse me, I need to make an addition to my “Ignore” list. Don, out.

[rfd]

well now, it's good to see mr don has finally come to his elitist senses.

[Roger Moss]

Now, if you will excuse me, I need to make an addition to my “Ignore” list. Don, out.

If that's like a "block list", then I do too.

[ukenukem]

Well, glad that's over. I purchased my 310f from The Mandolin Store and got a fair deal on the mandolin (setup) case and shipping. Did I expect it to sound like an all solid instrument? Nope. Does it have a nice tone? Yep. Does it play easily? Yep. Does it have the appearance of an older more expensive mandolin? I think so. I wanted a player f style that looks good on stage and is easy to play. I added a custom designed pickup so acoustic volume is not a priority.

So, I do think it relates to the original question depending on your needs and expectations. the 110 is a similarly constructed and has the same "vintage" vibe so I bet it would be a very nice player, especially if purchased from a dealer who sets it up.