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Thread: Tuners for an old bowl back

  1. #1
    Mandolin tragic Graham McDonald's Avatar
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    Default Tuners for an old bowl back

    A classical guitar teacher friend brought an old bowl back mandolin to me yesterday with hopes it can be resurrected to playing condition. It belongs to the eighty-something year old grandmother of his son's girlfriend. The grandmother was born in Greece and trained there as a teacher around the late 1940s. An obligatory part of their training was some proficiency on the mandolin , but when she married and moved to Australia in the 1950s, she did not have time for playing music. This mandolin was bought for her, perhaps in the 1960s, but has remained in a cupboard until rescued recently by her grandchildren. She has expressed a wish to again play the mandolin so I would like to get it working for her.

    It is American made and I have found what appears to be an identical instrument in a 1911 Carl Fischer catalog, the No. 5 1/2 on the left of the page. Made most likely by Regal or Harmony. The mandolin is in remarkably good condition. No cracks or distortion in the soundboard, the bowl is solid and the neck pretty close to straight. The bridge is too high but that can be sorted and it needs a new nut. The main problem are the tuners. The cog has been lost from the upper D string tuner post. I am hoping someone out there might have an unsalvageable bowlback with similar tuners, nickel plated with cream coloured buttons, though that is not vital. The posts are at 7/8" centres. The cog was a press fit onto the tuner post and slightly knurled over to hold it in place, so it would seem tricky to try to repair. Another set of tuners would seem easier, if I can find some.

    Thanks

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  2. #2
    Mandolin tragic Graham McDonald's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuners for an old bowl back

    In better light I have found a very discrete American Conservatory label and a serial number 192392 on the brace above the soundhole.

  3. #3
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuners for an old bowl back

    Hah, Graham. I was just going to say that it looks just like an American Conseravtory mandolin like this model 601 from the 1909 catalog.

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    Jim

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  4. #4
    Mandolin tragic Graham McDonald's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuners for an old bowl back

    And, I suspect the same engraving as in the Carl Fischer catalog Interesting that is priced at $14.50 from Lyon & Healy and $8.75 from Carl Fischer a couple of years later. Thanks, Jim.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Tuners for an old bowl back

    I would keep an eye on ebay - there are fairly frequently "wall hanger" bowlback mandolins offered for sale on there pretty cheap, and you may find similar tuners on one there.

  6. #6
    Mandolin tragic Graham McDonald's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuners for an old bowl back

    The worry with a random eBay purchase would be the tuner post spacing. I do need the 7/8" distance.

  7. #7
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuners for an old bowl back

    7/8" would be slightly less than 23mm which I believe is (if anything is) a standard. The good thing is that it doesn't have inset tuners. That makes it easier. I could look in my pile of tuners for you but to ship all the way to Australia might not be worth it. Some other luthiers out your way probably have a stash of old tuners.
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  8. #8
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuners for an old bowl back

    When I get time I'll browse my tuner graveyard. I already took the printed image out to the shop, I have some more old tuners in storage.

  9. #9
    Mandolin tragic Graham McDonald's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuners for an old bowl back

    Thank you Jim and John. Postage for some tuners in a padded envelope won't be huge, happy to cover any costs or even buy the tuners. This just seems like a good thing to do for an old lady.

    G

  10. #10
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuners for an old bowl back

    OK. I will look to see if I have something that matches in measurement and looks, if possible. Can you doublecheck to see if the posts are exactly 7/8" on center?
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  11. #11
    Mandolin tragic Graham McDonald's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuners for an old bowl back

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  13. #12
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuners for an old bowl back

    Thanks, Graham. Now down to the tuner mines. I have my entrenching tool and head lamp.

    Graham has actually been to my house but I can't recall if I actually showed him the Mandolin Catacombs.
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  14. #13
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuners for an old bowl back

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    Graham has actually been to my house but I can't recall if I actually showed him the Mandolin Catacombs.
    My old place in Virginia too, but I know for sure we didn't visit the tuner graveyard.
    I haven't found anything for this situation yet, but interestingly, when I first saw the thread title I wondered if the mandolin had those enclosed tuners that were on so many bowl backs, and are so impossible to find. Well, guess what. I found a set of those!

  15. #14
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuners for an old bowl back

    Yeah, it is better that they don't have the inset ones, just adds another layer of restrictions to fitting. Many of those look like the plates were cut down to fit the inset. I assume that the posts would be shorter than the standard non-inset ones.
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  16. #15
    Mandolin tragic Graham McDonald's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuners for an old bowl back

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    Thanks, Graham. Now down to the tuner mines. I have my entrenching tool and head lamp.

    Graham has actually been to my house but I can't recall if I actually showed him the Mandolin Catacombs.
    I did look through the door, but that was as much as I dared...

  17. #16
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuners for an old bowl back

    No Luck here.
    I've looked through a lot of tuners and I haven't found any with that post spacing. Sorry.

  18. #17
    Mandolin tragic Graham McDonald's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuners for an old bowl back

    Thank you for looking. On to Plan B....

  19. #18
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuners for an old bowl back

    I will look in the next day or so and let you know, Graham.
    Jim

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  20. #19
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuners for an old bowl back

    I probably have probably 30+ sets and only one set I could find has posts 7/8" on center. The overall standard post spacing seems to be 15/16". I even found one from a Washburn bowlback but that was also 15/16"

    They have odd-shaped buttons and two are missing. They look like brass and the string posts measure about 13/16" with the string holes on each post about 5/8" above the plate. I would guess that they were made in Europe. Post diameter: ~7/32".

    Frankly, I would think that if these had the buttons it would be fine. However, it might make more sense to just get a modern set of tuners and redrill the holes rather than make two matching buttons. This set would not really be original to that mandolin and I am sure this woman probably does not care, only that it tunes easily.
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    Jim

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  21. #20
    Mandolin tragic Graham McDonald's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuners for an old bowl back

    Thank you Jim. Plan B sounds like a plug and re-drill. I have some old tuners which can be made to work I suspect, or some new relic nickel Golden Age tuners from StewMac

    Cheers

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