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Thread: How brisk is the Gibson Loar F5 market?

  1. #1
    Oval holes are cool David Lewis's Avatar
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    Default How brisk is the Gibson Loar F5 market?

    Provided you had the money (which I don’t) how quickly could you buy a Loar? There’s that one ta Norman’s rare guitars. Is that the only one for sale? Are there owners there who have them on sale and just wait for someone to make an offer?

    I’m just curious and I don’t want not need to know private details.
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    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: How brisk is the Gibson Loar F5 market?

    There are several out there, seems to me that Carters had one, one at Elderly(I think it’s still there), Norman’s, seems to me that there have been a couple floating around within the last year or so. That does not consider the more “private” sales. So, I would say if the desire and funds are on hand, one could be found without too much difficulty.
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    Default Re: How brisk is the Gibson Loar F5 market?

    If you had the money you could probably have 15 at your house next week. The question then is if that actually happened what would that do the Loar market? Push prices higher, flood the market with more sellers, something else? I once made a post about a similar topic on a smaller $ level regarding what the effect would be if one person bought up a huge number of less expensive mandolins. Say 500 vintage A style Gibson’s. Sorry to go a bit off topic of your original post.

    Phil

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    Default Re: How brisk is the Gibson Loar F5 market?

    I'm counting 8 on carters and gruhnns website. The real hypothetical question to me is could you take 1 million dollars to Nashville today and buy all 8? If so how many gilchrist could you get with the left over money?

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    Oval holes are cool David Lewis's Avatar
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    Default Re: How brisk is the Gibson Loar F5 market?

    It’s not really off topic, and I think it’s a relevant point.

    A 1920 snakehead costs what? 3000? (More?) it’s really interesting ...
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    Default Re: How brisk is the Gibson Loar F5 market?

    Carter has one 1923 Loar-signed F-5 priced at $150,000. If you look at their videos, Thile dropped by a few years ago, and they had several (3 I think) at one time. If you look at the way they move just out of this shop, I'd say the market remains brisk. I'm always amaze that there are that many buyers for $150,000 mandolins! But, if I hit the lottery Carters is probably the first place I'm heading to!!
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    Administrator Mandolin Cafe's Avatar
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    Default Re: How brisk is the Gibson Loar F5 market?

    One can't really judge the market and activity by counting Loars on web sites. Loar buyers and sellers have historically not needed nor wanted attention so transactions are commonly off the public radar. For a few dealers I'm in contact with I know there can often be a buyer waiting for the right one to come through, a phone call is made, and that's it. Then I could name at least a dozen or more individuals with the means that have Loars move in and out of their inventory as musicians, hobby collectors, hobby dealers, etc. that don't have a web site and don't broadcast their purchases or acquisitions. Most transactions you're not going to hear about and dealers are certainly not going to tell you who they sold one to when they do have one, if they even admit to selling it, something I know for fact happens.

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    Default Re: How brisk is the Gibson Loar F5 market?

    What I'd like to know is what that $150k instrument actually sells for. $135k?
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    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: How brisk is the Gibson Loar F5 market?

    Br1ck, they sell for more than I have so, I’m not a fair judge. But, you do make an interesting point.
    The real truth i think lies in our glorious leaders post and I paraphrase here,
    “They move under the radar more than the general public realizes.”
    The broadcasting of “Hey, I have this $100k instrument.” Is not often seen, the instrument simply is seen being played somewhere then they go “dark” for a while and they retur. Back and forth. It’s really interesting to hear from some of the members here and have them chime in with “yeah, that was a good one!” Or, this particular one didn’t do it for me.” One of the things I do enjoy about this forum! Vast knowledge about a relatively small number of instruments and the history’s of them.
    Timothy F. Lewis
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    Default Re: How brisk is the Gibson Loar F5 market?

    When Chris Thile bought his Loar in 2007, it was reported that he paid around $200K for it. Nowadays they seem to go for a quite a bit less. If it were anyone other than Thile, I would say that was a terrible investment, but I think he has gotten a million dollars worth of publicity from owning it, IMHO!

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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: How brisk is the Gibson Loar F5 market?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Mando View Post
    ... but I think he has gotten a million dollars worth of publicity from owning it, IMHO!
    I am skeptical that anything mandolin related can generate enough publicity to roughly equate to the results of a million dollars of well placed advertising.

    If anything Thile's purchase probably comes closest.

    But seriously, Thile, who?, oh yea the guy on that show that is not Prairie Home Companion anymore, that plays the little guitar thingie? The genius guy, yea, Claire Coffee's husband.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

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    Default Re: How brisk is the Gibson Loar F5 market?

    There's also one for sale at Lowe Vintage in Burlington, NC...a very nice one, actually...

    NFI, just putting it out there.
    Chuck

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    Default Re: How brisk is the Gibson Loar F5 market?

    You mentioned how much Thile has made with his Loar, there a lot of mandolin players out there that make a decent living and don`t own one...A loar is place don a pedestal mainly because Monroe played one, most of them do sound great but there are other mandolins out there that sound just as good or better than a Loar...I know two Loar owners that play some other make of mandolin on their shows...I would be just as happy with a Master Model and still have about 90 grand in my pocket.....

    Willie

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    Oval holes are cool David Lewis's Avatar
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    Default Re: How brisk is the Gibson Loar F5 market?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Mando View Post
    When Chris Thile bought his Loar in 2007, it was reported that he paid around $200K for it. Nowadays they seem to go for a quite a bit less. If it were anyone other than Thile, I would say that was a terrible investment, but I think he has gotten a million dollars worth of publicity from owning it, IMHO!
    Without knowing my guess is that he’s not worried about the drop in value. He’s not selling anytime soo. And even if he did he bought that one from the genius grant so he didn’t put anything into it. Over 40 years though it should hold its value.

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    Administrator Mandolin Cafe's Avatar
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    Default Re: How brisk is the Gibson Loar F5 market?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Lewis View Post
    And even if he did he bought that one from the genius grant so he didn’t put anything into it. Over 40 years though it should hold its value.
    The grant had nothing to do with the purchase of the Loar. Article from 2008 where he talks about its acquisition in Vintage Guitar Magazine. Our 2012 interview with him with photo of it being playing in concert in 2011. He received the MacArthur Foundation grant in 2012.

    And as far as the price paid, well, you read it on the internet so you know it's true.

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    Default Re: How brisk is the Gibson Loar F5 market?

    As stated there are many that get swapped and bought that the general public doesn't know about! There are also 2 Loar F-5's at Philadelphia Vintage Instruments, a lot sit for a long while at dealers mainly because of the markup, but individual sales are much lower.

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    Oval holes are cool David Lewis's Avatar
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    Default Re: How brisk is the Gibson Loar F5 market?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandolin Cafe View Post
    The grant had nothing to do with the purchase of the Loar. Article from 2008 where he talks about its acquisition in Vintage Guitar Magazine. Our 2012 interview with him with photo of it being playing in concert in 2011. He received the MacArthur Foundation grant in 2012.

    And as far as the price paid, well, you read it on the internet so you know it's true.
    Didn’t he buy a second Loar with some of that?

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    Default Re: How brisk is the Gibson Loar F5 market?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Lewis View Post
    Didn’t he buy a second Loar with some of that?
    I was at Mandolin Brothers August 2, 2011 chatting with Stan Jay who sold him a Loar. I know because I still have the photos on my iPhone with date stamp. At that time he'd already previously made the sale to Chris. I think everyone can figure out this math. I'm through answering questions.

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    Default Re: How brisk is the Gibson Loar F5 market?

    From my peanut gallery it seems like the briskness of Loar sales has been supported by the somewhat decline in going price over the last view years. Loars had two big, interrelated things going: sound and penache /collectability. People maybe paid more to assure both the sound and still have the value of the Loar name to hold up and grow the price, but more fabulous sounding mandolins are available than ever (maybe only $10-$20K. . . ) and the general high end players might be less apt to search out and then worry about a Loar and buy a newer Gibson, Gil or Nugget. Put the rest towards a house or whatever. Or maybe not. . .

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    Default Re: How brisk is the Gibson Loar F5 market?

    "Brisk"?

    It's never been "brisk" and it never will be.

    There are a limited number of these very expensive items whose appeal is and always will be to the limited number of people who (1) want one of them and (2) can afford one.

    How brisk is the market for penny blacks?

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    Registered User Hendrik Ahrend's Avatar
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    Default Re: How brisk is the Gibson Loar F5 market?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Lewis View Post
    Didn’t he buy a second Loar with some of that?
    That would be Loar #75318. His earlier purchase was #75316. CT is sure fond of the early batch of Feb. 18 1924 F5s; me too BTW.

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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: How brisk is the Gibson Loar F5 market?

    Quote - " ...waiting for the right one to come through,...". So - does that mean that the ones already for sale haven't been ''the right ones'' for anybody yet ?. It also makes me wonder just who's buying them. It doesn't seem to be the well known players,otherwise we'd most likely have heard of it by now,as we heard when Chris Thile & Ronnie McCoury bought theirs. My underlying thought is that maybe some of them aren't too good ?. Even somebody buying one as an investment would need a good sounding one,or a future sale might not happen.

    All speculation,but i wouldn't mind playing a few myself ,
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    Oval holes are cool David Lewis's Avatar
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    Default Re: How brisk is the Gibson Loar F5 market?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Kelsall View Post
    Quote - " ...waiting for the right one to come through,...". So - does that mean that the ones already for sale haven't been ''the right ones'' for anybody yet ?. It also makes me wonder just who's buying them. It doesn't seem to be the well known players,otherwise we'd most likely have heard of it by now,as we heard when Chris Thile & Ronnie McCoury bought theirs. My underlying thought is that maybe some of them aren't too good ?. Even somebody buying one as an investment would need a good sounding one,or a future sale might not happen.All speculation,but i wouldn't mind playing a few myself ,
    Ivan

    I know that CT has replaced the fingerboard on his. Do all of them have dodgy frets? And this doesn’t affect the price? (Again, just wondering) I’m quite happy to be told I’m wrong if I am.
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    Default Re: How brisk is the Gibson Loar F5 market?

    With a Pro musician like Chris, I'm sure he has the original boards for future. And like friend told me with these mandolins changing out a fret board for optimum playability is like changing tires on your ride! Some of these guys look at Sam Bush, his HOSS mando the redone 37 F-5 has went through 3 or 4 fret boards since he's had it! These guys can write off their instruments at tax time I believe? Don't know much about that though and how it works.
    They'll always be something with the original F-5's and anything Loar because its the first of many, prices may go up and down but they'll always be popular, its a mystic lore type thing!

    To David, the dodgy fret thing is that on some-maybe all "because a bunch of lesser models have had their boards replaced" the slots were not cut right in the jig so they don't intonate perfect, or maybe bridge isn't in the direct center of F-hole points "as with my mid 30's F-5 fern, that's why boards have been replaced on many. Also I imagine that some boards have dried completely out, this was the case with a well worn 37 F-7 I owned. It was great sounding as a short neck but the board was real bad/dried and cracks so I just opted for a new 5 scale maple neck and board because the body wasn't pristine-already was apart for some reason.
    Last edited by William Smith; Jun-05-2018 at 4:54am. Reason: answer a ?

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  32. #25

    Default Re: How brisk is the Gibson Loar F5 market?

    Fine violins have had their necks replaced multiple times. No one seems to care.

    I once was shown a very early gold top Les Paul. The worn original frets made the guitar unplayable. Making it playable would have severely devalued the guitar. Never understood that.
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