Beginner, pick-holding question

[Hoogus]

So I recently began playing mando about 2 months ago. I have played guitar on and off over the years. I just released tonight that I may be holding the pick in a non-optimal way when playing mandolin. I am holding the pick like I would a pencil using my thumb, index and middle fingers. After watching a few videos, I realize I should be wedging the pick in between the tip of my thumb and the first joint of my index finger. Does this sound about right?

It feels awkward, but I am guessing it is worth the effort of re-learning? I feel like I can notice a difference in tone, sounds deeper with this approach.

Any feedback is much appreciated!

[Eric Hanson]

Hello
I just watched this video.
http://www.mandolessons.com/lessons/...hand-technique
It has many of the recommended technique details I have seen before.
Too, it follows the technique that Mike Compton taught during a mando camp I went to.
Yep. It is a bit harder than holding it in the manner that a guitar player uses, but when holding this way, and practicing it in a focused manner, I have found that my ability to play the mandolin has imporved greatly.

[sblock]

There are several schools of pick holds, involving the thumb plus either one or two additional fingers. However, I would not tend to characterize any particular method as being something "for the guitar" or "for the mandolin." The very same pick hold can work perfectly well for both instruments, and players who play both usually use the same grip all the time, not different grips.

As for whether you prefer a "pencil-type" grip that uses the tips of both the index and middle fingers, along with the thumb, or a "traditional claw" grip that uses the upper side of the index near the first joint and the thumb: this entirely is a matter of personal preference, not right or wrong. You will find great players who use one or the other -- or even other, less standard approaches.

If you're just starting out, and have developed no special preference, I would recommend beginning with the two-finger "traditional claw" grip, and then take it from there. It's simpler, and in more widespread use. It might give more power (but that depends on your anatomy & personal physiology). But if you experience troubles, try switching to the other grip.

[MissingString]

Search YouTube for “Sheldon Online Academy, Chris Thile-Pick Hold”. It’s about a 10 minute video and quite excellent for your request. Good luck and happy picking.

[DavidKOS]

The traditional mandolin tutorial books used these images to show how to hold a pick:









Of course these method books were written before the invention of Bluegrass, before the "Dawg" pick, etc. However the old books offer a look at the way mandolin was played during its "Golden Age".

[Hoogus]

Wow, good stuff, thanks for the feedback.

Trying to learn the traditional "claw grip" is proving to be quite awkward. The pick is kinda moving around on me and it's affecting my left-hand a little bit too as everything just feels unnatural. I'm 35 years old and learned guitar at 15, though I plateaued and did not play regularly at all, I definitely got used to holding a pick in the "pencil-type" grip.

Because of small kids and work, I usually only get about 30-40 minutes a day to practice and I'm wondering if relearning the "claw grip" is the best use of that time. Maybe it is ,I don't know.

Will the "pencil-style" grip hamper my playing down the road in any way? Will I eventually get to a point where I wished I had just slowed down early on and got the "claw grip" down? Thanks so much.

[DavidKOS]

Will the "pencil-style" grip hamper my playing down the road in any way? Will I eventually get to a point where I wished I had just slowed down early on and got the "claw grip" down? Thanks so much.

It depends - how well can you play really guitar with that pick grip?

I've seen pros use non-standard grips, so perhaps you can play very well that way. Most of the guitar students I have had that tried using that grip eventually switched to a standard pick hold as they found they could play better than with their old way.

[T.D.Nydn]

There's great guitar players that use the 3 finger tip grip,,look at Malmsteen and VanHalen,,but theyre playing electric guitars with .oo8 E strings,,I think the 2 finger ,1st finger pad and thumb grip is better for mandolin,it helps deliver the power you need to drive those strings...

[CES]

It’s definitely worth the effort. I made the switch around your age, and at the same time stopped planting my pinky. I felt like my playing went backwards for 4-6 weeks, but then it began to click. By the three month mark I could play much faster with better tone than I could with my old grip. As I’m typing, my grip wasn’t that different from the power grip, but removing the pinky was a big deal. I know play mando, guitar, and mandocello with the new grip, and am very glad I made the change (I’m now 43).

[DavidKOS]

There's great guitar players that use the 3 finger tip grip,,look at Malmsteen and VanHalen,,but theyre playing electric guitars with .oo8 E strings,,I think the 2 finger ,1st finger pad and thumb grip is better for mandolin,it helps deliver the power you need to drive those strings...

That was my point about certain professionals using various pick grips.

Although I do not agree that you need the 2nd finger for "power" - you can get all the power you need with a controlled, focused thumb and 1st finger grip.

One other reason EVH et al use the 2nd finger is to be able to use the first finger to tap.

[T.D.Nydn]

That was my point about certain professionals using various pick grips.

Although I do not agree that you need the 2nd finger for "power" - you can get all the power you need with a controlled, focused thumb and 1st finger grip.

One other reason EVH et al use the 2nd finger is to be able to use the first finger to tap.

Use 1 finger and thumb,that's actually what I meant,somehow I counted the thumb as a finger and it came out as 2 fingers (?)..

[lflngpicker]

TD,That description sounded like 2 fingers to me! What does that say about me? Hey, what is the pick you have pictured in your avatar? Thanks, Dan

[T.D.Nydn]

TD,That description sounded like 2 fingers to me! What does that say about me? Hey, what is the pick you have pictured in your avatar? Thanks, Dan

I meant 1 finger and the thumb,,whatever,who cares,,anyway,that is a Japanese Sekova pick from the late 1960's...

[JeffD]

Will the "pencil-style" grip hamper my playing down the road in any way? Will I eventually get to a point where I wished I had just slowed down early on and got the "claw grip" down? Thanks so much.

First of all take heart. No matter how we start, we will have regrets that perhaps it would have been better to have started some other way. But hey, you started. So many waste valuable time looking for the best front door. Doing it "wrong" is at least doing it. Get in and get going. My biggest regret (in music and life) was trying to start in a way that avoided regrets.

Second, in general I think it better to adopt a grip that keeps the pick close to the hand. So that when you pluck the string, the whole hand is firmly acting as one wooden block, as opposed to the added flex of extended fingers. And, IMO, a thicker pick that doesn't add its own flex to the procedure. This way the hand and arm are fully responsible for the sound and volume and you can consciously make modifications as the tune requires.

What ever gives maximum control, from which you can adjust consciously to achieve maximum expressiveness.

I guess the sensei (Niles Hokkanen) would likely say something akin to 'your ultimate goal being able to pick the mandolin with your mind'.

[Mark Wilson]

If your pick deflects and squirms it may be more telling of your attack angle to the strings - not the grip. Curling your index finger back some under the pick will help as you get faster imo. Starting out you can get by with any grip you please if you don't mind the adjustment later.

I spent a lot of energy early trying to play with a grip that felt unnatural. Now I find myself adjusting towards that position naturally. So have fun with it. Hey - have more than one grip if you want.

[sblock]

Most beginners, and even experienced pickers who are trying a new type of pick grip for the first time, tend to experience episodes of the pick deflecting, squirming, walking away, or rotating. Having the pick rotate in the hand is the most common issue. Anyway, these episodes tend to go away over time, and with a lot of practice. They're caused by things like minor changes in the string attack angle, loosening the grip at the wrong instant, micro-movements and squeezing of the fingers, and so on. It happens. And it gets better, so just stick with it.

[Gelsenbury]

Simon Mayor teaches both the standard grip and the pencil grip. So they are probably both legitimate and both worth trying. A new technique will take time to get right, but if you ever spot problems with what you currently do, you know that there's an alternative.

[Hoogus]

Search YouTube for “Sheldon Online Academy, Chris Thile-Pick Hold”. It’s about a 10 minute video and quite excellent for your request. Good luck and happy picking.

Again thanks for the feedback on this. It's a huge help.

This video gave me some good insight. I liked how he said that the point of the grip is to have the thumb "driving" the motion on the downstroke, while the index finger's job is to keep the pick from falling out. On the upstroke, it's the reverse, the index finger along with support from the other fingers drive the upstroke, while the thumb keeps the pick in place.

This gives me some reason why the "traditional" or "claw" grip is recommended. When using this group do people generally have their fingers curled (but not crunched) in so that there fingernails are facing (parallel with) the strings or do folks usually have their hand more open so that the ends of their fingers are facing the string and their fingernails are perpendicular to the strings? I find the latter a littler more manageable in terms of maneuvering, while the former tends to keep the pick slightly better.

Thanks again.