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Thread: Did R.L. Givens ever build a "Gibson" A-5 copy?

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    Default Did R.L. Givens ever build a "Gibson" A-5 copy?

    I have a copy of a Gibson A5 with appointments favoring some of the RL Givens A styles I have seen pictures of. Does anyone have a clue as to whether or not he or someone else may have built a "Gibson" copy with the pointed end on the peghead and fingerboard?

    Greg

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did R.L. Givens ever build a "Gibson" A-5 copy?

    Why not post a picture? If you're trying to verify if your instrument was built by Givens try contacting Greg Boyd at https://gregboyd.com/. He probably knows more about R.L. Givens instruments than anyone else.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
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    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
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    Default Re: Did R.L. Givens ever build a "Gibson" A-5 copy?

    Thanks, I'll give them a shout. I am a little concerned over copyright issues with posting a pic on a public forum but thanks for trying to help.

    Greg

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    Registered User Benjamin T's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did R.L. Givens ever build a "Gibson" A-5 copy?

    Raphael Ciani Galiano circa 1920
    Gibson F-5G FB 2003
    John D'Angelico 1933
    Vivitone Acoustic #338 circa 1933
    Gibson F4 1915 Blacktop
    Shutt/ Harmony Viol Mandolin circa 1930

  5. #5

    Default Re: Did R.L. Givens ever build a "Gibson" A-5 copy?

    Quote Originally Posted by GJProject65 View Post
    I have a copy of a Gibson A5 with appointments favoring some of the RL Givens A styles I have seen pictures of. Does anyone have a clue as to whether or not he or someone else may have built a "Gibson" copy with the pointed end on the peghead and fingerboard?
    I have a 1979 Givens A-5 that looks just like the one in the photo that Benjamin T linked to. My understanding is that Bob partially took apart the only Gibson Loar A (aka Griffith Loar) when it was in the possession of Tut Taylor in order to study the insides; i.e., the bracing and probably top thickness. He then proceeded to develop his own line of mandolins. Therefore, it is possible that he copied the pointed ends. The peghead on a Givens A is like that of a Gibson snakehead (minus the little divot at the very end), and there is that pointed end at the end of the fingerboard.
    "Those who know don't have the words to tell, and the ones with the words don't know so well." - Bruce Cockburn

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did R.L. Givens ever build a "Gibson" A-5 copy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teak View Post
    I have a 1979 Givens A-5 that looks just like the one in the photo that Benjamin T linked to. My understanding is that Bob partially took apart the only Gibson Loar A (aka Griffith Loar) when it was in the possession of Tut Taylor in order to study the insides; i.e., the bracing and probably top thickness. He then proceeded to develop his own line of mandolins. Therefore, it is possible that he copied the pointed ends. The peghead on a Givens A is like that of a Gibson snakehead (minus the little divot at the very end), and there is that pointed end at the end of the fingerboard.
    I'm sure Givens had it in his hands but other luthiers here that have had it in their hands say the back was never taken off. The story is questionable.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
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    Registered User j. condino's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did R.L. Givens ever build a "Gibson" A-5 copy?

    Please don't start up this tired old subject about the back removal; it has been beat to death many times here.

    Lots of people have copied the Griffith A5 very well. There are three of them that show up here on a regular basis for the summertime jams, all well done. Lets also not reject the possibility that there may be another original out hiding in the trenches. It is a wonderful instrument. If you ever get the chance to play it in person, you'll realize the foolishness of all that scroll lusting. Remember that the Loar era snakehead mandola surfaced for the first time a couple of years ago; prior to that nobody thought one existed....

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    Default Re: Did R.L. Givens ever build a "Gibson" A-5 copy?

    I`m not sure what the OP means by a point on the peg head...I owned a Givens years ago and it had the normal shaped "Snake head" peg head...It did have a point at the end of the finger board... A photo would be nice...

    The Kentucky KM-900 series are pretty good copies of the A-5 from what I have heard, I never player the original one but the KY`s that I have played are great sounding mandolins...

    Willie

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    Registered User samlyman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did R.L. Givens ever build a "Gibson" A-5 copy?

    I would check with Steve Weill who worked with Bob and is a great guy to chat with!

    BTW - in my opinion and as a local who has played and owned several of Bob's mandolins, many of Steve's Givens Legacy mandolins are just as good, if not better than, Bob's with the benefit of a much smaller price tag. Many pickers in North Idaho play Legacy mandolins and they are great mandolins (and guitars).

    Steve Weill often goes to Weiser and brings a bunch of instruments to sell so check them out next month at the fiddle contest.

    I have no financial interest in Givens Legacy instruments.

    Sam

  11. #10

    Default Re: Did R.L. Givens ever build a "Gibson" A-5 copy?

    OP wrote:
    "I am a little concerned over copyright issues with posting a pic on a public forum but thanks for trying to help."

    I don't get this.
    Many (most?) folks here have posted pics of their mandolins, what does copyright have to do with it?

    If you want a more definitive answer, pics are necessary.

  12. #11

    Default Re: Did R.L. Givens ever build a "Gibson" A-5 copy?

    Attachment 168179

    Any ideas about it?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Registered User John Rosett's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did R.L. Givens ever build a "Gibson" A-5 copy?

    It sure looks like a Givens mandolin. Maybe someone re-did the peghead later in it's life? My understanding is that Givens signed the underside of the top on most of the mandolins he built. Have you looked inside with a mirror?
    "it's not in bad taste, if it's funny" - john waters

  14. #13

    Default Re: Did R.L. Givens ever build a "Gibson" A-5 copy?

    No, but I plan to very soon.

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did R.L. Givens ever build a "Gibson" A-5 copy?

    It might be Givens, but it's really not an exact copy of the Ms. Griffith Loar. It looks OK. A lot of the builders were making Gibson labeled instruments in the day as Gibson wasn't making great instruments for a while. This is the Ms. Griffith Loar when Tut Taylor owned it. Did you send that picture to to Greg Boyd?

    It does look like a Givens. Here are some pictures of Givens mandolins that are on the Greg Boyd site.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

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    Default Re: Did R.L. Givens ever build a "Gibson" A-5 copy?

    I took the Op`s question to be did Givens build any A-5 model mandolins with "The Gibson" name on the head stock....

    Willie

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    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did R.L. Givens ever build a "Gibson" A-5 copy?

    There may be a few ODE mandolins from the 70's floating around, I believe Givens had a hand in those? I had an F-5 style called "The Monroe" it wasn't a bad mandolin at all!

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    Default Re: Did R.L. Givens ever build a "Gibson" A-5 copy?

    Could be an old conversion. CE Ward used to do those, rights?

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    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did R.L. Givens ever build a "Gibson" A-5 copy?

    I thought it was Tut Taylor and Givens that did the ODE stuff but may be wrong?

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did R.L. Givens ever build a "Gibson" A-5 copy?

    The inlay could have been done by anybody.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did R.L. Givens ever build a "Gibson" A-5 copy?

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrasser78 View Post
    I thought it was Tut Taylor and Givens that did the ODE stuff but may be wrong?
    I believe they were both involved.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

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    Default Re: Did R.L. Givens ever build a "Gibson" A-5 copy?

    I owned an ODE and was told that they were built in Tut Taylor`s shop using specs that Givens supplied which were suppose to be what he/they found when measuring the Griffith A-5...The Odes had a real thick finish on them, the one I had went through at least three sessions of thinning the finish off, when playing it it didn`t sound very loud but the sound really carried quite a ways, I did do some recording with it and it sounded great on them...

    Willie

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    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did R.L. Givens ever build a "Gibson" A-5 copy?

    Back in the mid-late 70’s one of the “Tennessee” A-5’s passed through the shop where I was lucky enough to be “employed”. I know there have been some threads about this in the past but, was there a relationship between the “Tennessee” line and GTR(?) or whomever back then? “We”had thought there might be back then but, since there was no inter confusion net, the detective work didn’t happen. You know what I mean.
    It was really heavily finished, very, very tight. I was not seriously considering it but, should have tried to get it started...oh well, hindsight!
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

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    Default Re: Did R.L. Givens ever build a "Gibson" A-5 copy?

    Tim, After reading this thread I dug out an old CD that I have of me playing that Ode A-6 and it sure did have that Old Gibson sound, at the time I didn`t think it was very loud so I did sell it but have found out later that a lot of mandolins don`t sound very loud to the person that is playing them but the sound carries for a good distance...I should have suspected something when a lady from Texas came all the way up here to Maryland to buy it and she was real happy to get it...I did make a few bucks on the resale .BUT...

    Have a nice 4th....Willie

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    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did R.L. Givens ever build a "Gibson" A-5 copy?

    Yep, “out front” sounds different from players perspective to be sure. I’ve heard recordings of my Alvarez and from the front it’s way more “in your face”than I think it is, sometimes.
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did R.L. Givens ever build a "Gibson" A-5 copy?

    If you're talking about the ODE Co.,it was owned & run by Charles Ogsbury. I believe that Charles sold it to the Baldwin Co.,but he eventually founded another Co. - OME. https://www.omebanjos.com/about/ode-instruments/ / https://www.omebanjos.com/about/history-part-1/

    There's no mention of mandolins re.the ODE Co.,
    Ivan
    Weber F-5 'Fern'.
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