Mandolins, Mandolas, Mandoloncellos at the BDZ Eurofestival

[mandoisland]

I have just finished my post about the instruments exhibition at the BDZ Eurofestival Zupfmusik 2018 in Bruchsal. Its in German, but it's mostly pictures.

I have made photos of instruments by the best German mandolin luthiers including Klaus Knorr, Alfred Woll, Bruni Jacob, Thomas Dotzauer, Elmar Geilen, Yasuyoushi Naito, Hopf, Urs Langenbacher, Martin Hurttig, Markus Dietrich, Christopher Schuetz, Hermann Gräfe.

So if you are interested about the mandolins built in Germany you should visit my German blog:


http://www.gezupftes.de/?p=14588

The Eurofestival was a great event. I took part as a member of the Badisches Zupforchester, the orchestra of Baden in the South-West of Germany.

From the USA the Oregon Mandolin Orchestra, Brian Oberlin and Mike Marshall took part. Brian has already posted some videos of his Open Air Stage concert with Mike Marshall.

The BDZ will probably post photos and videos of some performances within the next weeks.

[margora]

I was also at the Eurofestival. I gave a late night recital of works for solo mandolin by American composers (Frank Wallace, Philip DeWalt, Jesse Jones, and James Kellaris) in the music room at the Bruchsal castle. I also played mandola with the Oregon Mandolin Orchestra and the Austrian Cecilia Ensemble. I'm in two of Michael's photos, playing a mandola made by Thomas Dotzauer -- an excellent instrument with great projection and tone, beautifully made, and attractively priced.

[Jim Imhoff]

As a relative newcomer to the mandolin orchestra world, this was an enlightening experience in many ways. The combination of Mike Marshall's informative and entertaining presentation on American mandolin history and seeing all the European orchestras with guitars (not mandocellos) gave me an understanding and appreciation for my Gibson K2. Not being chauvinistic or "MAGA-ish" but I feel a new world of music is accessible to me on a CGDA bass instrument that has its roots in a uniquely American tradition.
My musical background is in choral education and theory, so I was also amazed at the variety of tone colors and musical effects possible with plucked double strings. Most of the music I heard was written specifically for the mandolin orchestra, although hearing Caterina Lichtenberg's Hochschule Orchestra and their brilliant presentation of the Brandenburg Concerto was a high point. I respect our own CMSA's policy of fostering plucked instrumental music, but that performance (along with MMQ's stunning recording of Dvorak American Quartet) should generate some thought about including string orchestra repertoire.
We (the Oregon Mandolin Orchestra) were surprised at the wildly enthusiastic response to Brian's arrangement of "Chicago." Maybe more than any other selection, this seemed to be the most "American" music they heard. It really swang baby!
One source of organizational irritation though was the inconsistent treatment of entry; some people were not "permitted" to leave one hall even between performances (when the stage was being reset) and missed friends and families performing in the other hall. I was just a few steps from the door when a young volunteer shut it after allowing a group in. In other cases doors were opened even as the audience was still clapping.
Other than that, my wife and I had a marvelous time touring the town, the castle and museums. The Mechanical Instrument Museum is incredible--made our modern digital processes look rather mundane and dull. We also appreciated how helpful the locals were to a couple that had "worked on their German" but used the phrase "English, bitte?" more than any other. We even met a local resident at the train who had a brother in Bend, Oregon--his brother had moved there to grow pot!
All in all a memorable experience, and a great eye and ear opener for me--a retired music professor who now feels like I entered a whole new world of great music and musicians.
Tschuss, und viele danke!

[Acquavella]

Bummer. I guess that I don't count as an American anymore. Thanks Michael.

[Jim Imhoff]

Thank you for posting the pictures, and for your very extensive website. My interest is in mandocello (I play with Oregon M O) so I did not see as much as I hoped at the Instrumentarium. I now understand--thanks to Mike Marshall's lecture and the many European orchestras with their guitars--that the mandocello is more of an American development. I was afraid to travel with my 1918 Gibson K2 (customs, TSA, baggage handling) so I bought a cheap guitar-MC conversion. I was fortunate to meet Holger Paetz, who graciously loaned me his K2 for the performance--Viele Danke Holger. I know there are a few European luthiers working on mandocellos, especially in the UK, but mostly I see mandolas, octaves and bouzoukis. And of course many wonderful mandolins! Thanks again Michael.

[mandoisland]

Chris - welche Länder / Nationen siehst du in diesem Bild?

How many nations can you find in this picture?

I enjoyed your performance, especially the baroque mandolin piece! Thanks for your great contributions for the mandolin!

[Beanzy]

on American mandolin history and seeing all the European orchestras with guitars (not mandocellos) gave me an understanding and appreciation for my Gibson K2. Not being chauvinistic or "MAGA-ish" but I feel a new world of music is accessible to me on a CGDA bass instrument that has its roots in a uniquely American tradition.

Late 1800s copy of earlier vinaccia mandoloncello, recently sold at auction for €3000.

I suppose the word mandocello could be the unique thing you are referring to? Or perhaps the carved top design?
I am aware that there is a bit of anti-cello prejudice among some of those running orchestras, but I hope there aren’t attempts to re-write history too.

[Jim Imhoff]

Apologies; I am learning history, not trying to rewrite it. And my comments were pertaining to use of instrument in the orchestra, didn't mean to imply America invented the mandocello (I will let Donald Trump handle that claim). I do know of some European MC's although this beauty is quite a surprise; I also know of the "mandoloncello" term and the liuto cantabile which has 5 courses and allows a much higher range. I think my impression is based more on seeing almost no MC's in the European orchestras, rather large guitar sections covering the bass lines. Also, when I looked through box after box of sheet music, the orchestral scores nearly all had guitar rather than mandocello.

I am researching solo mandocello music for a CMSA presentation and I found only one such piece in the many boxes I checked. In contrast to all this, many mandolin orchestras in the US have a mandocello section, and the solo MC literature I have found is almost exclusively American. If anyone is aware of such literature, by the way, please provide some leads. I also have a Darwinian evolutionary view/theory of instrumental development: there has been a wide range of designs in string, keyboard, and wind instruments over the centuries. I once conducted a Monteverdi 1610 piece with theorbo, krumhorns, and portative organ. But forces including performing space, technology, and economics have left us by and large with the late 19th century configuration of the orchestra.
So I offer my respect and apology to the mandoloncello makers of Europe, and my curiosity about how to physically manage such a large bowlback. Please give us more historical information, my scholarship is in other areas of music history, and I appreciate any help in getting my facts straight.
But this discussion probably belongs in CBOM, or maybe Vintage, so let me again say what a great time we had in Bruchsal! Tschuss

[Graham McDonald]

Late 1800s copy of earlier vinaccia mandoloncello, recently sold at auction for €3000.

The tuning of the larger 18th century mandolins such as the Vinaccia you have shown is very much open to debate. There are two sizes of these made, the smaller with a 18-20" string length and the larger around a 30" string length. Both Paul Sparks and Stephen Morey think they they were tuned as a tenor mandola (cgda) and in octave tuning for the larger ones.

Cheers

[Jim Imhoff]

Mandocello
Octave mandola
Mandoloncello
Liuto cantabile (extra string course)
... and now, tenor mandola?
The labels and names can be a bit confusing although I think I am getting a grasp. But I had not seen "Tenor Mandola" before; would this cgda be in the same octave as my mandocello? Are you using lower case to designate octave?

[Graham McDonald]

Ahh, the nomenclature wars strike again
In the US a mandola is a fifth below a mandolin - cgda and an octave mandolin an octave below a mandolin. Mandocello an octave below the mandola. In the first decade of last century there was a debate over some years as to the use of the mandola or octave mandolin in American mandolin orchestras and this was eventually resolved in favour of the mandola and the octave mandolin cast into the outer darkness for many years.

In Europe the cgda mandola is a tenor mandola and the American octave mandolin is an octave mandola. I am sure you came across a number of short-scale octave mandolas in German orchestras at the festival.

(using lower case because of laziness)

Cheers

[Jim Imhoff]

[/QUOTE]
In Europe the cgda mandola is a tenor mandola and the American octave mandolin is an octave mandola.
(using lower case because of laziness)
[/QUOTE]
Wait... so a "tenor mandola" is just a regular (American, sorry) mandola? And the American octave mandolin (gdae) is called an octave mandola? But "mandola" implies cgda, doesn't it?
To make it even more confusing, my wife just bought a tenor banjo tuned gdae, like my mandolin.
I ma now so confused I don't know which rest room to use.
If you have all this figured out you are clearly NOT lazy!

[Graham McDonald]

Historically, a 'mandola' in Europe was just a larger version of a mandolin. The European/American differentiation has caused much confusion in the Cafe over the years. And that is before we get into the discussions about what an Irish bouzouki may be...

Being Australian, I figure I can be neutral on the topic.

Hope you enjoy the book.

Cheers

[August Watters]

Wait... so a "tenor mandola" is just a regular (American, sorry) mandola? And the American octave mandolin (gdae) is called an octave mandola? But "mandola" implies cgda, doesn't it?

"Mandola" doesn't always imply CGDA tuning. Check out the European string makers, usually "mandola" means GDAE, as in this page from the Optima site. GDAE is the usual tuning for the Italian and German orchestral mandola. Although as Graham points out, there's some question about the history of that. My understanding of that history comes from Alex Timmerman, who (please correct if I'm wrong, Alex!) describes CGDA mandola tuning as late-19th-century development intended for mandolin quartet use.

"Tenor mandola" usually means CGDA tuning, but unfortunately in Italian, "mandola tenore" means GDAE tuning. "Mandola en Sol" also means GDAE tuning (with "sol" being fixed-do solfege for "G," the lowest string of GDAE tuning).

CGDA mandola tuning is predominant in the west obviously. However in Italy both Dogal and Galli use "mandola contralto" to mean CGDA, and "mandola tenore" to mean GDAE tuning.

And then there's the "octave mandola" . . . .

[Jim Imhoff]

Thanks August; now I wish I had talked to some of the German orchestras (in Bruchsal) to see exactly what they were playing, what it was called and how it was tuned. And then there's the clef...

[mandoisland]

Hi August, hi Doc James,

In Germany the typical mandolin orchestra is composed of mandolins 1 and 2, mandola, guitar and double bass. Almost all the compositions and arrangements are using this instrumentation.

The Mandola is tuned in GDAE.
The Mandoloncello is not used in many orchestras.
All the other instruments named "mandola" "mandola tenore" "octave mandolin" are not known in Germany in general.

Typical instruments used are the instruments with a scale of typically 45 cm (43 cm - 48 cm) which exist in different forms

- Italian bowlback form - some Italian and Japanese models like Suzuki or Calace and vintage German instruments

- Herwiga 1111 form - popular vintage instruments
Vintage Herwiga 1111 in the front:


- Hums / Dotzauer form - most popular form for new instruments
Bob Margo with Dotzauer Mandola:

[Jim Imhoff]

Well, my trip to Bruchsal (and a visit with friends in the UK) has opened my eyes and ears a bit. In Romsey (UK) I had the BIG breakfast with a flat white, and in Weingarten and BruchsalI had milchkaffee and everything came with white asparagus (Spargelzeit!).
This is becoming more clear, but I won't say it's making sense; and it takes me back to Mike Marshall's history of mandolin orchestras in the US, which evolved along different lines from the Europeans. The names and tunings of American MO's mostly match the string quartet model. I am curious how and why the German model evolved with guitars instead of "cello-like" mandolins.
I had not traveled internationally much in my life, although I have studied and taught music from all over the world. So I do understand the misunderstanding of labels: when I hear somebody say "Oh, I like ALL kinds of music" I am tempted to say "You have not heard all kinds of music." But the different naming, tuning, and clef use of instruments does surprise me, so I need to read more--and thank you for providing this information.
p.s. That's a great picture of Bob--he played with us (Oregon MO) at Bruchsal. Another excellent player AND scholar.