Info about this banjo mandolin?

[don_wendorf@yahoo. com]

Can anyone tell me something about this banjo mandolin I just got, like maker, model, age, wood, value, etc.? I can't see any id info on the outside and nothing on the inside I can see from outside although haven't taken it apart yet (I'll get someone who knows what they're doing to try that). Thanks.

[MikeEdgerton]

It wasn't made in the US, the zero fret shows that. Most likely built in Europe. Unless someone has a specific idea about that resonator you probably will have trouble identifying the maker. The other one you posted is probably worth more than this one.

[don_wendorf@yahoo. com]

Thank you, Mike. I've never seen a "zero" fret. What is the purpose of that?

[MikeEdgerton]

The nut slots don't have to do anything but keep the strings spaced correctly. The height of the strings off the fretboard is controlled by the height of the zero fret. Common on European instruments, not seen on production US instruments of the 1900's (or 2000's for that matter). Some folks swear by them.

[pops1]

It's concept was that the open strings sound just like the fretted strings since they are all on a fret.

[don_wendorf@yahoo. com]

Well, I can sort of see the logic there.......sort of. Sure never caught on. Thanks for the info

[Verne Andru]

Mosrite did zero-fret IIRC.

[MikeEdgerton]

I sit corrected, Semie Mosrite apprenticed with a German luthier. I'm surprised Rickenbacker didn't use them as well.

[allenhopkins]

Slotted headstock and zero fret generally = European manufacture.

I've never seen a set-up quite like this, with a heavy cast tension hoop flared and pierced for such substantial tension-adjustment bolts, plus the resonator attached with a series of screws through the circumference. I'd guess it weighs a ton, right? Also, the four prongs that act as a "tailpiece" but are part of the tension hoop -- first time I've seen that, I believe.

As to age, hard to tell, but pre-WWII seems safe. No label or logo, but you might detach the resonator and see if there are markings inside the shell. As to wood, pretty sure to be a laminate resonator, and the neck looks mahogany. I can't tell from the pix if the shell's wood or metal; not much of it exposed...

I'd guess French or Italian make, but that's a totally under-informed speculation. As to value, whatever you can get for it. If it sounds decent, maybe a couple hundred buxx from the right buyer.

[don_wendorf@yahoo. com]

Thanks, Allen. Your observations sound right to me. It isn't light but it isn't as heavy as all that metal suggests it might be either: not any heavier than my regular modern f style mandolin. Maybe 2-1/2 pounds. I can't see inside real well but I'm not seeing shell, just the metal screwed onto the resonator from the top. I'm not planning on selling it but do hope I can get it playable. Right now the strings buzz above the 3rd fret or so and are clear again way up the neck. No obvious bowing so maybe if I can get the action up just a little I can play this baby. I'll post again after the resonator is off.

[Verne Andru]

I sit corrected, Semie Mosrite apprenticed with a German luthier. I'm surprised Rickenbacker didn't use them as well.

Not trying to make you wrong Mike. Semie's work tends to get ignored by many so you're in good company.

[MikeEdgerton]

Verne, I like learning things, I"m cool with that.

[Jeff Mando]

Chet Atkins was a fan of the zero fret. His signature Gretsch guitars have this "feature" whereas other similar Gretsch models do not.

[Jim Garber]

The one in this auction looks very similar.

Description:

Nice mandolin banjo (2 x 4 string) in original case.
Date: 1960s.

Dimensions:
A length of 61 cm.
A diameter of 26 cm.

The case is marked: Made in England, patent number: 165333.

Of course, it says the case is marked England. Possibly the MB too but just as possible not.

I don't really know why but my gut says it is German-made. I could easily be wrong, tho.

[don_wendorf@yahoo. com]

Thanks to Jim for his photo of a banjo mandolin very similar to mine in basic construction, although with some stylistic differences and it looks like higher quality material and workmanship on his. The inside of this has no markings either, on the shell or resonator or pot. As you can see (I hope it uploaded my photos), the shell is just a thin strip of wood that looks glued to the part of the resonator you see from the outside and the whole thing is only about a quarter inch thick. You can see a truss rod but no rod that runs the length of the interior and there is a shim that was between the neck and the shell. The whole pot and head assembly is attached to the resonator with a few very small screws that hold the whole thing together. I suppose you could adjust the action some by tightening or loosening the truss rod, changing the shim size or putting a bigger piece of ivory in the saddle on the bridge. I don't know that this would address the issue of string buzzing along the middle frets which sounds like a little bowing although it is too slight for me to see. Does any of this make sense to anyone?

[AndyV]

Well, I can sort of see the logic there.......sort of. Sure never caught on. Thanks for the info

Never caught on in NA. I think the Japanese makers gave up on it to fall in line with the American market. Saves on fret wire and installation time too.

[allenhopkins]

...Does any of this make sense to anyone?

Excellent sense. No dowel stick (across the shell from neck to tailpiece); the neck's just bolted on with a single large bolt. Not sure that it's a "truss rod," rather just the neck attachment. If it's the sole neck attachment you won't be able to change the neck angle much by changing the tension on a single bot. You can change the string height by shimming up the bridge (which, by the way, looks like a bowl-back mandolin bridge rather than a mandolin-banjo bridge) with small bits cut from a playing card, to see if that cures the buzzing. The fact that you get buzzing around the third fret and not higher might suggest a "hump" in the neck, which you can check out by laying a straightedge along the fretboard and determining if there's curvature or if the straightedge rocks at a particular fret.

Most mandolin-banjo bridges (not all) have feet like a regular banjo bridge.

Your instrument doesn't really have a "shell," or rather the cast metal ring that incorporates the tension hoop, acts as its shell. It's an unusual construction, and it would be nice if there were some provenance to the instrument that enabled you to trace part of its history. There are so many unusual instruments out there, that were made in small numbers and sold inexpensively so that they left very faint "trails" as they passed through the hands of musicians.

Good luck with this one.

[Verne Andru]

I don't know that this would address the issue of string buzzing along the middle frets which sounds like a little bowing although it is too slight for me to see. Does any of this make sense to anyone?

In all likelihood a fret level and dress should solve a "slight" buzzing on middle frets. It looks like there is a lot of meat on those frets so you should be able to dial it in with a bit of spit and polish. The flat tops on the frets tells me someone at one point did a rough attempt to level the frets but didn't finish the job by crowning them properly.

A fellow Cafe member Rob has a free ebook on how to setup a mandolin that should give you some pointers to get going.