Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 58

Thread: Laurel vs Yanny

  1. #1

    Default Laurel vs Yanny

    NMC here.
    I know the McGurk effect has been discussed here at the Cafe but I don't remember reading anything about this one.
    Unlike the McGurk thing, this strange phenomenon requires no visuals: https://news.nationalgeographic.com/...ained-science/

    What do you hear?
    "I play BG so that's what I can talk intelligently about." A line I loved and pirated from Mandoplumb

  2. #2
    Registered User George R. Lane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Helena, Montana
    Posts
    2,757

    Default Re: Laurel vs Yanny

    I hear "Boy is this dumb".
    2010 Weber Yellowstone

    I maybe wrong, but it is highly doubtful.

  3. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to George R. Lane For This Useful Post:


  4. #3

    Default Re: Laurel vs Yanny

    Quote Originally Posted by George R. Lane View Post
    I hear "Boy is this dumb".
    Looks like there's an explanation for that in the article:

    "Part of the answer is the difference between listening and hearing," says audiologist Douglas Beck, executive director of academic sciences at hearing aid manufacturer Oticon Inc. and senior editor of academic sciences at the audiology trade magazine Hearing Review. "Most people think of hearing as occurring in the ear, but hearing and listening actually occur in the brain."
    "I play BG so that's what I can talk intelligently about." A line I loved and pirated from Mandoplumb

  5. #4
    Some Ability - No Talent MikeZito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    944
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Laurel vs Yanny

    I listened four times -

    The first time I heard: 'Laurel'
    The second time I heard: 'Hardy'
    The third time I heard: 'Well, that's another fine mess you've gotten me in to.'
    The fourth time I head a high pitched crying sound . . . .
    Last edited by MikeZito; May-16-2018 at 4:19pm.

  6. The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to MikeZito For This Useful Post:

    + Show/Hide list of the thanked


  7. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    19

    Default Re: Laurel vs Yanny

    I LOVE it when internet trends give me a chance to share obscure knowledge! *puts on square cap and robe*
    The voice is saying "Laurel," but there are a lot of acoustic and psychoacoustic factors that will predispose certain people to hear "Yanney" vs "Laurel."
    The "Yanney" sound is created by a higher pitch series that we normally don't notice when listening to voices. These are called formants--they're a series of overtones specific to human speech. They're normally masked by the fundamental, which we perceive as the main pitch and the primary vowel sound.
    The overtone/formant series changes the way we perceive the fundamental tone: lots of overtones, and it sounds buzzy and complex; not a lot of overtones, and it sounds muffled.
    Certain voices emphasize certain overtones and formants more than others; male opera singers, for example, do this on purpose to achieve more projection by emphasizing the "squillo" (squeal) sound.
    What's interesting about the Laurel/Yanney thing is that it highlights certain differences in how we perceive the overtones versus the fundamental. There are a couple of factors, but here are the ones I think are most in play.
    First, you're more likely to hear "Yanney" if the fundamental pitch is masked. A lot of things can be responsible for this; first, most people are hearing it on smartphone speakers, whcih are very small, and small speakers don’t do a good job of reproducing low pitches. So the fundamental lowest tone of the voice is being limited, which allows the overtone series to become more prominently heard.
    Second, some peoples’ brains (mostly women, but not exclusively) listen more closely to higher pitches—it has nothing to do with better hearing, it’s purely related to perception. So even when the full spectrum of sound is present, those people are predisposed to hearing the higher-pitched overtones.
    Finally, the voice in the recording emphasizes these formants fairly strongly in the back of the throat--whether it's a trick of the anatomy of the person on whom the robot voice recording is based, I don't know--but the formant overtone comes through strongly in this sound even in ideal listening conditions.
    The upshot of this is that you can reproduce this effect yourself! Close your fist, and put your mouth at the little circle made by your thumb and forefinger. It may help to lift your pinky. Say the word “Laurel” while speaking into your fist (men may have better luck speaking in a higher voice), and you will hear the fundamental of your voice filtered out by the soft tissue of your hand, while the formant, which sounds like “Yanney,” will come through more clearly. You may have come across this same phenomenon if, like me, you were in junior high during the 90's, when people said “girl” into their hand, but you heard a high-pitched “doy” sound.

    Notice any similarities between “Laurel” and “girl,” and the resulting sounds' ("Yanney" and "doy") similarities?

  8. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to blaise.douros For This Useful Post:


  9. #6
    Registered User minuteman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    63

    Default Re: Laurel vs Yanny

    I have to say that I got caught up into this today. I downloaded an audio clip of it and using Audacity, changed the frequency until I heard a difference. It was remarkable at what point it changed for me vs the wife. For me, it was 4100hz, add or remove 20hz and it was night and day. The wife said it started to blend at 9600hz and wasn't clear either way for around 500hz up or down. By the time she heard a change it was annoyingly high to me.
    Last edited by minuteman; May-16-2018 at 6:40pm. Reason: typo

  10. The following members say thank you to minuteman for this post:

    JL277z 

  11. #7
    Registered User Roger Moss's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Charlottesville Va
    Posts
    855

    Default Re: Laurel vs Yanny

    I listened to it ten times and all I heard was "laurel". I guess that's why I'm not any fun at parties...
    Rise up with the new dawn's early morning
    Feel the sunshine warm upon your face
    Tomorrow's come a long, long way to help you
    Yes, it's your saving grace

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Roger Moss For This Useful Post:


  13. #8
    Registered User Steve VandeWater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Central Indiana
    Posts
    511

    Default Re: Laurel vs Yanny

    My wife played it for me on her phone this morning and it was very obviously Yanni. I couldn't understand how anyone could hear anything else. However, I heard it played on NPR in my truck coming home and it was obviously Laurel. Difference in speakers I guess, as blaise.douros said above.
    It ain't gotta be perfect, as long as it's perfect enough!

  14. #9
    Registered User Bob Clark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Southern NJ
    Posts
    1,317

    Default Re: Laurel vs Yanny

    Quote Originally Posted by FLATROCK HILL View Post

    What do you hear?
    All I heard was myself yawning. Oh well.
    Purr more, hiss less.

  15. #10
    Fatally Flawed willkamm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Annapolis, MD
    Posts
    1,271

    Default Re: Laurel vs Yanny

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeZito View Post
    I listened four times -

    The first time I heard: 'Laurel'
    The second time I heard: 'Hardy'
    The third time I heard: 'Well, that's another fine mess you've gotten me in to.'
    The fourth time I head a high pitched crying sound . . . .
    Nothing like Stan and Ollie playing a little "Kneesy, Earsy, Nosey."
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiFEFL6ThRI
    Gibson F5G (Dave Harvey 01/29/2016)
    Redline A5 (2015) #10
    Breedlove Legacy OF A/E (2015)
    TKD Eagle Electric 8 string (2016)

    Hohner Marine Bands (various keys)

    "Me, Billy and George are two of a kind."

  16. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to willkamm For This Useful Post:


  17. #11
    F5G & MD305 Astro's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Charleston SC
    Posts
    2,246

    Default Re: Laurel vs Yanny

    In such a divisive world, its somehow reassuring to learn there can be a physiologic basis for our disagreements.

    On the other hand, I think anyone who hears yanni is just wrong and should leave the country.
    No matter where I go, there I am...Unless I'm running a little late.

  18. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Astro For This Useful Post:


  19. #12
    Orrig Onion HonketyHank's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Beaverton, OR, USA
    Posts
    982

    Default Re: Laurel vs Yanny

    I think something like this is happening to me now, with my new hearing aids, on one of my mandolins. I used to really like that one, too.
    New to mando? Click this link -->Newbies to join us at the Newbies Social Group.

    Just send an email to rob.meldrum@gmail.com with "mandolin setup" in the subject line and he will email you a copy of his ebook for free (free to all mandolincafe members).

  20. #13
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Manchester - Lancashire - NW England
    Posts
    13,660

    Default Re: Laurel vs Yanny

    This even cropped up on UK TV last night !!. The 2 words are so different if you say them yourself,that i couldn't believe that anybody could mistake one for the other. I hear 'Yanny' every time without fail,
    Ivan
    Weber F-5 'Fern'.
    Lebeda F-5 "Special".
    Stelling Bellflower BANJO
    Tokai - 'Tele-alike'.
    Ellis DeLuxe "A" style.

  21. #14

    Default Re: Laurel vs Yanny

    doctor Moe, doctor Larry, doctor Curly. were are you ?, the world needs you. its gone mad.

  22. #15
    Some Ability - No Talent MikeZito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    944
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Laurel vs Yanny

    Quote Originally Posted by willkamm View Post
    Nothing like Stan and Ollie playing a little "Kneesy, Earsy, Nosey."
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiFEFL6ThRI
    The whole thing is laughable:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BAEJyuReWQ

  23. #16
    Fatally Flawed willkamm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Annapolis, MD
    Posts
    1,271

    Default Re: Laurel vs Yanny

    Doctor Howard, Doctor Fine, Doctor Howard!
    Gibson F5G (Dave Harvey 01/29/2016)
    Redline A5 (2015) #10
    Breedlove Legacy OF A/E (2015)
    TKD Eagle Electric 8 string (2016)

    Hohner Marine Bands (various keys)

    "Me, Billy and George are two of a kind."

  24. #17

    Default Re: Laurel vs Yanny

    Did anyone click on the Clip 1 and Clip 2 links in the middle of the OP's original article?

    https://news.nationalgeographic.com/...d-science-spd/

    That was cool, as well as a bit freaky. What was equally cool was going back to the page and clicking on Clip 1 a day later. I could hear the phrase, but it wasn't as clear. Clicking on the second clip, then playing the first clip made it more clear. It's like the brain needed a little nudge to remember the sounds and fill in the gaps. Perhaps this can explain the results of double blind tests comparing expensive instruments to less expensive. This is simply the way we hear, and comparing one sound to another is more subjective than objective, with so many variables affecting how we listen.
    Collings MT-O
    P.W. Crump OM-III

    Not long in this house:
    Weber Bitterroot F

  25. #18
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Redwood City, CA
    Posts
    1,771

    Default Re: Laurel vs Yanny

    Hey, I just love that tune by Laurie Lewis and Tom Rozum, "The Oak and the Yanny." How about you?


  26. The following members say thank you to sblock for this post:


  27. #19
    Some Ability - No Talent MikeZito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    944
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Laurel vs Yanny

    What really scares me is that somebody probably got some sort of grant, that is equal to 5 years of my salary, to some come up with this Laural/Yanny stuff . . . .

  28. #20

    Default Re: Laurel vs Yanny

    You will be happy to hear that it is not the fruit of a research grant: http://time.com/5279727/yanny-laurel-original-clip/

    And the guy who first came up with this certainly did not get rich from it: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/heraclitus/

  29. The following members say thank you to vetus scotia for this post:

    JL277z 

  30. #21
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Redwood City, CA
    Posts
    1,771

    Default Re: Laurel vs Yanny

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeZito View Post
    What really scares me is that somebody probably got some sort of grant, that is equal to 5 years of my salary, to some come up with this Laural/Yanny stuff . . . .
    No Mike, that did not happen in this case. But I hope you and my fellow MC musicians don't begrudge the funding spent on basic research, in general. Historically, basic research has paid out huge dividends for our society, and it has propelled the U.S. to worldwide leadership in technology and biomedicine (and as a military power, as well). You never know in advance what newfound understanding in science might lead to, so be careful before you rush to condemn it as frivolous. In fact, the ways that we perceive (or mis-percieve) spoken speech have a lot to tell us about computer-based speech recognition, about communication bandwidth, and future designs of things like human-machine interfaces. In my opinion, it's all good.

    For the first time in the post-WWII era, federal funding of basic research has now fallen below 50% of all research spending, and science is under attack from some quarters in government (see here). In all, federal expenses for R&D constitute less than 0.4% of the U.S. GDP. That's not a whole lot.

  31. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to sblock For This Useful Post:


  32. #22
    Registered User Drew Egerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Statesville, NC
    Posts
    623

    Default Re: Laurel vs Yanny

    Quote Originally Posted by blaise.douros View Post
    I LOVE it when internet trends give me a chance to share obscure knowledge! *puts on square cap and robe*
    The voice is saying "Laurel," but there are a lot of acoustic and psychoacoustic factors that will predispose certain people to hear "Yanney" vs "Laurel."
    The "Yanney" sound is created by a higher pitch series that we normally don't notice when listening to voices. These are called formants--they're a series of overtones specific to human speech. They're normally masked by the fundamental, which we perceive as the main pitch and the primary vowel sound.
    The overtone/formant series changes the way we perceive the fundamental tone: lots of overtones, and it sounds buzzy and complex; not a lot of overtones, and it sounds muffled.
    Certain voices emphasize certain overtones and formants more than others; male opera singers, for example, do this on purpose to achieve more projection by emphasizing the "squillo" (squeal) sound.
    What's interesting about the Laurel/Yanney thing is that it highlights certain differences in how we perceive the overtones versus the fundamental. There are a couple of factors, but here are the ones I think are most in play.
    First, you're more likely to hear "Yanney" if the fundamental pitch is masked. A lot of things can be responsible for this; first, most people are hearing it on smartphone speakers, whcih are very small, and small speakers don’t do a good job of reproducing low pitches. So the fundamental lowest tone of the voice is being limited, which allows the overtone series to become more prominently heard.
    Second, some peoples’ brains (mostly women, but not exclusively) listen more closely to higher pitches—it has nothing to do with better hearing, it’s purely related to perception. So even when the full spectrum of sound is present, those people are predisposed to hearing the higher-pitched overtones.
    Finally, the voice in the recording emphasizes these formants fairly strongly in the back of the throat--whether it's a trick of the anatomy of the person on whom the robot voice recording is based, I don't know--but the formant overtone comes through strongly in this sound even in ideal listening conditions.
    The upshot of this is that you can reproduce this effect yourself! Close your fist, and put your mouth at the little circle made by your thumb and forefinger. It may help to lift your pinky. Say the word “Laurel” while speaking into your fist (men may have better luck speaking in a higher voice), and you will hear the fundamental of your voice filtered out by the soft tissue of your hand, while the formant, which sounds like “Yanney,” will come through more clearly. You may have come across this same phenomenon if, like me, you were in junior high during the 90's, when people said “girl” into their hand, but you heard a high-pitched “doy” sound.

    Notice any similarities between “Laurel” and “girl,” and the resulting sounds' ("Yanney" and "doy") similarities?
    Next time my playing sucks, I will tell the audience they are just not hearing it correctly and go into this entire speech
    Drew
    2016 Skip Kelley Vintage F-5 (#54)
    2003 Flatbush V4
    2015 Eastman MDA815 (mandola)
    https://www.facebook.com/3rdCreekBluegrass

    "Thank you for making it through a truly unreasonable amount of mandolin playing" - CT

  33. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Drew Egerton For This Useful Post:


  34. #23
    Registered User jefflester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,179

    Default Re: Laurel vs Yanny

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Kelsall View Post
    This even cropped up on UK TV last night !!. The 2 words are so different if you say them yourself,that i couldn't believe that anybody could mistake one for the other. I hear 'Yanny' every time without fail,
    Ivan
    Same here. I don't hear anything that sounds like an "L" sound at all. My girlfriend sitting right next to me on the couch (we were watching local TV news) said she heard Laurel and questioned how I could not.

  35. #24
    Some Ability - No Talent MikeZito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    944
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Laurel vs Yanny

    As in all science, there IS a correct answer to this debate - however, at this point, we just don't know what it is.

  36. #25
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    0.8 pc from NGC224, upstairs
    Posts
    9,571

    Default Re: Laurel vs Yanny

    Yeah Ree, Yeah Ree
    That's what I hear. Am I alone in a phonematic universe?
    the world is better off without bad ideas, good ideas are better off without the world

  37. The following members say thank you to Bertram Henze for this post:


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •