I have been helped a lot by massage. It is amazing how tight and painful my hand and forearm can get from playing. Both arms benefit. Gaining more length from those muscles and loosening them up all the way around the elbow into the back.
Marc
I have been helped a lot by massage. It is amazing how tight and painful my hand and forearm can get from playing. Both arms benefit. Gaining more length from those muscles and loosening them up all the way around the elbow into the back.
Marc
I had the same problem when I started playing regularly with an Eastman 815. I'm a guitar player, and attributed the forearm fatigue to the smaller mandolin neck compared to a guitar neck. I thought I was going to have to just quit playing mandolin altogether. But then I changed mandolins, and it got better fast. I think it was from clamping down too hard with my left hand. I could not easily get the clean notes I wanted with the very small frets and flat board on the Eastman. I also found the very narrow neck and deep-V neck shape to cause my hand to cramp quickly. I switched to a Weber, with a rounded neck profile. The neck is about 1/16" wider, has a radius fret-board, and I think most importantly, larger frets. I quickly found that I could fret note cleanly with much less finger pressure. Maybe it was just more "guitar like". But the difference made playing easier for me, and ultimately my forearm pain and hand cramps went away. I still have my Weber (Bitteroot), and have also acquired a Summit F-style. One of the things that drew me to the Summit was the neck and fret similarity to the Weber.
I’m actually hoping this is somewhat the case for me too. Mine is also an Eastman.. a 305. I decided to have a custom mandolin made for me and through that process I’m learning of all of the options out there that I was completely unaware of. One of those is a radius fingerboard and the other is that he uses banjo frets. I’m used to playing the fiddle, so I’m used to having a curved fingerboard... and I don’t get pain from that. I’m excited to see how the new mando and set up will help. Unfortunately it will be a year before it is done.
ItstooloudMike - the same situation here! The narrow neck, flat board and tiny frets were causing me some pretty major tendinitis issues. Upgraded to a mandolin with a slightly wider neck, radius and larger frets, and the situation improved radically.
(Not sure my contribution is of value, really?)
In the word of running, shin splints are associated with, "Too Much, Too Fast, Too Soon."
Maybe work on one, or two, or all three of these?
I really don't have direct experiences. I will tell you, I've been hacking on the mandolin for decades. It's all for therapy to to some extent fellowship - both here and at jams. In all honesty; however, it's therapy and I play fine all by myself - for hours! So happy to have that in my life - along with loving wife, children and career.
All that said, I think it's good to mess with technique. I spent a while last year on pick grip. I'm sort of more mindful of mandolin-torso relations/angles right now. Don't you have to think the excellent folks had to to all that too? I do! Whether I get there or not.
So, tinker away! I say that irrespective of the teacher. Let the teacher tell you if you are messing up - you'd likely know - and tinker on!
"On the journey to excellence, enjoy mediocrity!"
f-d
¡papá gordo ain’t no madre flaca!
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May be too late, or not the right place, but here is a video that describes how to come back to practicing after taking time off from an overuse injury. Therapists call this Work Hardening.
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Pete Martin
www.PeteMartin.info
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I have also experience "tennis elbow". I use the Theraband also and I think that it is helping. I recommend using the lighter version initially as you don't want to exacerbate the situation. I also use finger stretcher/strengthener rubber devices. Also it appears that some of this elbow forearm pain can, and in my case, comes from the shoulder which is pulling on the triceps which is pulling on the elbow which is pulling on the forearm. There are many youtube examples of exercises on this.
Of course I think about all the other issues of finger pressures etc. which all have been discussed here. Mine is finally improving after months and months. Of course I play a lot of tennis so I don't know where to place the blame. Part of my solution was to rest for a while. That is less tennis and more mandolin. Good luck with it.
Dan
One thing I’m starting to wonder is if neck width is making a difference for me. I looked it up and it seems that the Eastman MD305s have a 1 3/32 neck width. I’m having a mandolin made and at first I thought a narrow neck would be the way to go but as my tennis elbow isn’t getting better I’m wondering if a standard neck would be better.
Hinde MF #40
If you've tried all the remedies offered here with no improvement, you need a real doctor, specialist or pro mandolin teacher. Pete Martin here on the cafe probably has some good advice for you.
I wouldn't expect neck width to be the cure, but I was wrong once before . Be hopeful - the human body wants to heal and does a pretty good job given the opportunity.
Last edited by 40bpm; Jul-24-2018 at 4:42am. Reason: calling Pete Martin
[note to self] Burst not thy brother's bubble ~ unk
Actually Duncan Wickel, violin player with Molly Tuttle and others, created the Wickel Buckel, a seat belt-like violin strap. Check it out ... he has an FAQ on it: http://www.wickelbuckle.com/
I also have developed tendonitis but it's particular to my left index finger, the first joint. Very stiff. Some stretching helps but the constriction and retraction of the tendon returns. Especially after a night's sleep. I wonder if it's toxins, or carpal tunnel. Now I stretch throughout the day, put on cream, drink water and have stopped my obsessive playing. I'm worried because I love to play so much that not playing is making me anxious... which might in fact be causing the problem! Thanks for any more ideas. Appreciate this forum. Best, M.
Your video seems to show a player with reasonably good technique. It does not appear that you are doing anything wrong.
But you are using your muscles in a slightly different manner (as in angle, pressure, etc.) than playing fiddle.
It may just be the adapting to another instrument - like if any of us mandolinists switched to violin - and should pass as you get used to the very slightly different way you use your arms and hands to play fiddle as opposed to mandolin.
And, yes, the fiddle needs less pressure to hold a single string on the fingerboard than a mandolin, with it's double strung courses, needs.
Right there with ya. Mine, however, is a pinched nerve, not from playing, from sleeping.
I can play but I'm afraid to aggravate the situation at this point. Figures, my Masters of Mandolin book just arrived.....sigh.
This week has been bad. I woke up one morning feeling like i had pulled a muscle in my under shoulder area. That went away and then i got pain in my bicep, traveling to my forearm later into my fingers. The pain would move between those areas and at one point was having spasms that would cause me to cringe.
It got to the point that i figured for sure i had a pinched nerve. It also got to the point that i went to the doctor with very little diagnosis, the doctor also became concerned it was cardiac related which i can pretty much say it isn't. She did an ekg and everything is ok there, whew. I'm in pretty good shape for my age (47), i log at minimum 21 miles on my road bike a week, My resting heart rate is consistently 47 to 54 bpm.
The pain got to the point that it felt like someone was stabbing a knife in whatever area (shoulder, forearm, wrist, bicep) that was hurting at the moment. I don't have pain in the elbow like tennis elbow. It got so bad the doc took me out of work for 3 days.
I have to find a solution, i don't want to have to give up playing. This is no fun.
Help!
I’ll muddy up the discussion by saying I have always thought Pete’s ergonomic advice was wrong. I know it came from a doctor and worked for him. But this is the Internet, so I’m allowed to give medical advice.
I think holding the mandolin as Pete suggests is unnatural. We evolved to manipulate our fingers directly in front of our face, about belly high (weaving, carving, etc.)—not with our elbow back and our hand out to the side. I always feel more comfortable when I move the neck up and closer to my center line, angled a little bit out in front of me. I don't go directly out in front, because I am using two hands some distance apart—just a little bit in that direction seems to help.
Also, if you are playing chords, each shape requires a little elbow adjustment. Trying to keep your elbow in one spot will cause pain. So let your elbow go where it wants to go.
So, my advice is to experiment with finding a posture that gives you the control you need with the least amount of tension. Try to minimize the work your left hand has to do to hold the instrument steady by experimenting with how your strap is set up. Remember that Bill Monroe was accommodating his hat—not maximizing his ergonomics—when he hung his strap over his right shoulder. Also, the scroll is not the only place on the instrument you can tie your strap.
Last edited by JonZ; Sep-07-2018 at 9:17am.
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Finally seems to be getting better, it's been rough. I want to play quite badly but still "gun shy" to condition aggravating. This stinks.
Certainly mess around with different left hand techniques. I was a guitar play my entire life and but experienced similar type pain. I played bluegrass, but was also a classically trained guitar so my left hand technique was correct, but still got pain in left forearm. Ultimately, I had to switch instruments. I tried a go at dobro but never fell in love, then I tried mandolin and have stuck with it the last 6 years. I still play guitar sometimes, but I always stop once I feel any pain.
Good videos here, apply as/where needed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=fHuISr6CSOI
Thanks to MandoMN18 for starting this thread. I have also been diagnosed with tennis elbow. Playing the mando hurts like hell, as well as guitar. Fiddle not so bad. I may try the Theraband flexbars. I have been using a Trainer's Choice elbow brace, as well as physio and acupuncture. Sadly, my doc says time off is the best cure.
I hope you can find something that helps! I’m still on my journey. I went to a different doctor who now diagnosed me with golfer’s elbow instead. He actually told me that rest won’t make a difference.... which surprised me. But when I do take time off it seems to hurt just as bad as ever. I really have started to massage my arm a lot. I go across my arm like what they suggest here...https://youtu.be/MOw6UFelld0 I also recently ordered an arm brace and a tens unit. I’ll see if those make a difference. So far massaging seems to really help. I switched to light strings on my mando and I’m also working on teaching myself to really only push down hard enough to make a good sound. I think it will take some time to teach my hand that and not to grip too hard. I’ve also started doing some of the stretching and strengthening exercises that I found online. It seems like this will be a long journey, I’m still hoping I can find something that will help. I’m hopeful that massaging my arm will continue to make a difference
Hinde MF #40
I bought a Theraband flexbar and within three days I was almost back to normal. Within a week I was pain free. I now use it only occasionally if I get a flare-up. I used a blue Theraband (they also come in red, yellow and green, each with different resistance levels).
Proper use can be seen beginning at 1:18 of this video: https://youtu.be/A2QQaVfeI4U
THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!
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