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Thread: Left Forearm Pain

  1. #1
    Registered User MandoMN18's Avatar
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    Question Left Forearm Pain

    Hi,
    I have been learning mandolin for about a year now. I’m originally a fiddle player but I decided I also wanted to learn mando. The problem is that I get an ache in my left forearm from playing. It starts below my wrist and runs to my elbow. I have talked to my teacher and he said that my technique is good. The only thing he thinks could be causing the pain is if I’m clamping down too hard with my left hand. We have worked on techniques to remind my hand of how hard it needs to press down. I also lowered the action on my mandolin as low as I could while trying to not affect playability.

    Do you think this could be the result of clamping down too hard? Do I need to stop playing? Do I need to look at a different mandolin? Someone said I could maybe benefit from a mando with a wider neck. I play an Eastman 305.

    Thank you!!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Left Forearm Pain

    Yeah I expect your teacher has it right ...... over gripping is a problem with the mandolin. I expect coming off of a fiddle which notes with a great deal less pressure has added to your problem. It does take more downward pressure than a fiddle but not THAT much. Convincing your brain to lighten up will take some work. My suggestions are to make sure your nut is set at the best height, and your neck has the right amount of relief, use a light gauge string , go to three tone chords rather than full four tone forms. Relax make sure you are holding the mandolin at the best angle for your technique to do the work....... I really don't see a wider neck instrument solving your problem. RELAX ..... warm up your hands with some slow scales and chords experiment with using less clamp down on your scales...... you will find the point where you lose good tone and can work on using the best amount of pressure. Pick up a copy of Rob Meldrum's set up book here on the Cafe'. The more you know and understand your instrument the happier you both will be ...... Play On! R/
    I love hanging out with mandolin nerds . . . . . Thanks peeps ...

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    Default Re: Left Forearm Pain

    Quote Originally Posted by MandoMN18 View Post
    We have worked on techniques to remind my hand of how hard it needs to press down.
    Play for shorter periods til you figure out how to play with less tension. I still fret too hard after five years and wish i'd learned from the start to play with a lighter touch. Sounds like your instructor is on top of it.

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  6. #4
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Left Forearm Pain

    Quote Originally Posted by UsuallyPickin View Post
    warm up your hands with some slow scales and chords ...
    Warming up is the most important part in my experience.

    Playing an instrument with small fretting forces, like the violin or banjo, is a warm-up exercise in itself, so the issue is never noticed with those. But for adding bigger forces to the moves, the muscles better be warmed up already. Opening/closing fist, wiggling fingers for a minute before playing goes a long way.
    the world is better off without bad ideas, good ideas are better off without the world

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    Default Re: Left Forearm Pain

    All good advice above. Mandolicafe’s great!
    Peghead nation too, and Artist Works.

    Have you considered the downward and inward pressure of your RIGHT forearm on the side of the mandolin/arm rest? It can make a huge difference for some people to the muscles used on the left arm and especially help to prevent clamping of the left hand. Also the strap length.
    Another one, very slight changes of position can help to rest certain muscles and make you aware of which muscles are being used compared to which muscles need to be used.

    You could check videos of your favourite players. Notice how most of their mandolins hardly move. All of their different muscles are constantly gently balancing each other out, not fighting each other.
    Breathing enough is another one, it reduces carbon dioxide in the blood of the muscle ie. prevents lactic acid build up which would otherwise cause cramps. Artery constriction can do this too, eg. If right forearm pressure is heavy on the rest.
    Yes, a good instructor at the beginning will get you through these details.

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  10. #6
    Registered User Pete Martin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Left Forearm Pain

    Might want to look at my ergonomic videos on holding the instrument and the left hand here:

    http://www.petimarpress.com/mandolin...%20videos.html

    Also watch this

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=Nmyx1NVTDPc


    Can you tell us more about how this started? Did you go from not playing much to playing a lot? Is it outright pain or something else?
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    Default Re: Left Forearm Pain

    These are very helpful videos, Pete.
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    Default Re: Left Forearm Pain

    I’m so glad there is a place like this to get such great advice. Thank you all!! Pete- this started when I started playing more. At that time I lowered the action on my mando and it seemed to help and go away for awhile. My E string was not making real notes on higher frets— it was making a more metallic sound— so I raised my action back up slightly. It was ok for awhile and then my arm started hurting again so I lowered it back down but I’m still in pain and my E string doesn’t sound great. My teacher is wondering if I need a truss rod adjustment or if it’s just that my low action makes it sound like it’s hitting a fret.

    I’m wondering if using a mandolin strap.... even when I am sitting.. may help. Right now I don’t use it when I am sitting. Maybe I am trying too hard to hold the mandolin and play?

  14. #9
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Left Forearm Pain

    Quote Originally Posted by MandoMN18 View Post
    I’m wondering if using a mandolin strap.... even when I am sitting.. may help. Right now I don’t use it when I am sitting. Maybe I am trying too hard to hold the mandolin and play?
    That should be easy to find out. Try it. I always play strapped; can't imagine how to do without it.
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    Default Re: Left Forearm Pain

    Sounds like what I've developed, which is probably tendonitis. First it was the inside forearm, now it's gotten worse on the outside. I'm taking 3 Advil 2-3 times a day and trying to lay off the arm as much as possible. YouTube has some arm warmup stretching videos.

    Otherwise if it doesn't get better I'll be making a visit to my orthopedist.

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  18. #11

    Default Re: Left Forearm Pain

    Minn mando person-

    I had that too, when I was working on keeping my middle finger down closer to the fretboard. It was definitely worse when I was pressing too hard, but even as I eased the grip, it still hurt. Perhaps you are just asking the arm to do something it isn't used to. Stretches, warm up, and above all else, stop when you feel pain. Listen to your body! I took several days off, and now really watch for it. So far so good, and I think the fore arm is getting stronger and more relaxed with practice.
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  20. #12
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Left Forearm Pain

    Quote Originally Posted by Bertram Henze View Post
    That should be easy to find out. Try it. I always play strapped; can't imagine how to do without it.
    What's more, coming from the fiddle, you might know that the one thing missing for centuries is a violin strap
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  22. #13
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    Default Re: Left Forearm Pain

    Quote Originally Posted by Bertram Henze View Post
    What's more, coming from the fiddle, you might know that the one thing missing for centuries is a violin strap
    That is some interesting playing! Not my cup of tea but if it inspires more people to play and listen to music...great!

  23. #14
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    Default Re: Left Forearm Pain

    Often overuse injuries happen because someone goes from a light workload (or no workload) to a consistently heavy workload. It takes a bit, but when it happens, the best thing to do is stop all activity until healing takes place, then gradually add the workload back in over several weeks. Occupational therapists call this "work hardening".

    I would suggest a couple weeks off to let healing happen. Then start with 2 five minute playing sessions with at least 1/2 hour off between them. After 4 days, if things feel good, add two more 5 minute sessions with at least 15 minutes between. After 4 more days, if things are good, add 5 minutes to 2 of the sessions with time in between. Keep progressing at 4 day intervals, adding 5 minutes to sessions.

    My overuse injuries caused me to miss about 3 years of playing. After I was able to play pain free again, my performing arts doctor suggested no more than 5 minutes practice at a time, even when I could play a lot more. After 5 minutes, take a short break, walk around a couple minutes, stretch, etc. Then practice 5 more minutes.

    As I had been used to playing a lot of hours a day before injuries, I told her that I wouldn't be able to get anything accomplished if I only practiced in 5 minute increments. She told me to set a timer but before I started, to think about what I wanted to accomplish in these next 5 minutes. Then what I wanted to accomplish in the next 5 minutes.

    I was amazed at how much I was able to learn and absorb in that short amount of time. I learned much faster and retained much more this way. It is now how I practice all the time. Never more than 5 minutes without at least a minute or two break. I always set a timer so I won't loose track of time.

    Something to think about.
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  25. #15
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    Default Re: Left Forearm Pain

    Thank you! That is great advice. I appreciate it!!

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    Default Re: Left Forearm Pain

    Well I sent a professional a video of my playing and he says my technique looks good (dang- I was hoping for some obvious thing that I need to change). I’m meeting with him tomorrow to try and figure out more. Is it possible that it could still be a set-up or instrument issue? I’ve got my action as low as it can go without buzzing. Does this mean I have a good reason to tell my husband I need to upgrade to a beautiful new mandolin?. I’m currently playing a Eastman 305. If my technique is good .. what else could it be?

  27. #17
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    Default Re: Left Forearm Pain

    Is your left arm tucking back too far and closing the angle of your elbow? I see many mandolinists who don’t hold the left hand far enough forward and constrain their muscles and blood flow like that. That might not show up too easily if the video was from the front.
    Maybe you could try posting the same clip on vimeo or YT as a private video then link it here so people could have a look & chime in.
    It won’t likely be the mandolin from what you describe. However the good news is you can celebrate figuring out the issue with the purchase of an upgrade, once you’re sure there’s nothing limiting you from a long and healthy pursuit of the instrument.
    Eoin



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  28. #18
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    Default Re: Left Forearm Pain

    Here’s the video. I had my hubby try and get my arm at different angles. https://youtu.be/s8NYnasY91Y

  29. #19
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    Default Re: Left Forearm Pain

    Well bang goes that idea.
    There doesn’t seem to be anything cramped up and the elbow isn’t too far back like some peopke do.

    You could experiment to see how it feels if you open up the forearm angle a bit more until you loose more of the crease there.
    But that’s just to see if there’s any relief to be had from that.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Otherwise there really is no obvious tension going on there. Wrist looks level and apart from crossing your legs, which can lead to lower & mid back issues if you leave them like that too long, posture is relaxed & upright.

    I’m afraid I’m no good to you here, but it was worth a shot.
    Hopefully the teacher spots something when you’re there playing without focussing on posture, maybe some habit or repetitive issue will become apparent.

    Good luck with the lesson
    Eoin



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  31. #20

    Default Re: Left Forearm Pain

    Yeah, it’s hard to spot any bad technique there. Nice straight and relaxed-looking wrist, etc.

    I assume your string action is OK and that you’re not having to grip too hard to fret the notes?

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  33. #21

    Default Re: Left Forearm Pain

    Play fewer chords. I find chording fatigues my arm to no end about 20x faster than playing melody lines. If you are hammering on chord progressions, maybe lay off for a bit.

  34. #22
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    Default Re: Left Forearm Pain

    Well I went to the chiropractor and found out I have tennis elbow. I purchased a theraband flexbar and that really has made a difference. Between icing my elbow and using that... I no longer am having pain!! Highly recommend to anyone else dealing with this. I got the red flexbar. https://youtu.be/sJA_MmAS5ws

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    Default Re: Left Forearm Pain

    I too have had great success with Theraband flexbars. I started with the red until the pain went down and then bought the green one which is slightly denser and larger. Anyone with elbow/forearm pain might benefit. I use mine daily to keep the pain away.
    [note to self] Burst not thy brother's bubble ~ unk

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  38. #24
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    Default Re: Left Forearm Pain

    Besides lower action, you can use lighter gauge strings and tune down a half step while you work up the strength and callouses curve.

    There's also 2 hand exercisers i like the Dyna Flex spinning powerball and the PowerWeb: http://www.pwrwebintl.com/
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  40. #25
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    Default Re: Left Forearm Pain

    You might consider taking you mandolin to someone and have the frets checked for level. A good fret level will allow a lower action. Low action is a must for me to play without pain. While it doesn't take much to really press down the strings to fret a note, in the midst of playing a solo I will play much harder than I need to.
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