Chord theory

[saltydawg]

Hi, First post. I'm an Ol timer (more ways than one) who has decided to dip his toe in the BG pond. I have always played ol time melodies so this is going to involve learning to chord and strum and play breaks. In looking at the many different choices of chords one can use the question arises as to why use a chord that is difficult to achieve when a simpler form may work. As a example a popular D maj. form is 7452, why not 2455,a much easier stretch that slips into A maj nicely. Also by definition doesn't the 7452 form chord need a fifth ? Another example is the G maj 7523 form, one that requires 2 minutes of torture to achieve. The 4523 form lacks a 5 but if its acceptable for D why not for G. Is it the voice the chord makes that makes it's use preferable ? Not trying to shed the hard work and practice required to play this genre, just looking for some direction. Thanks

[Bad Monkey]

Hi, First post. I'm an Ol timer (more ways than one) who has decided to dip his toe in the BG pond. I have always played ol time melodies so this is going to involve learning to chord and strum and play breaks. In looking at the many different choices of chords one can use the question arises as to why use a chord that is difficult to achieve when a simpler form may work. As a example a popular D maj. form is 7452, why not 2455,a much easier stretch that slips into A maj nicely.

It depends a lot on what is before and after the chord in question. Think of each note of the chord going to a note of the next chord, rather than the whole chord going to another. It's like playing four harmony lines at once. There may be a cool descending line on the E string you can play by picking certain chord forms, or a bouncing line on the G and D strings. Or a line the ascends from the low G on up to the high E... You get the idea. That said, the simplest two finger chord may be the very one you want at that time. It all depends on what everyone else is playing and singing as much as what you're playing.

Also by definition doesn't the 7452 form chord need a fifth ?

Not necessarily. Is the guitar, banjo, fiddle, dobro, etc. etc. player banging out fifths? How many fifths are already being played at that moment? How many roots? How many thirds, 7ths, 9ths? People are going to be listening to the whole band as a single instrument, not everyone needs to play every note every time. Take a moment to listen to the whole ensemble top to bottom, you may be surprised at what you hear. Often you may find yourself deciding to pull notes out of a chord to keep the overall mix from getting muddy. Try playing as many thirds as possible on a keyboard and only one root and fifth. Total mud. Try it again with all roots and fifths and one third. See what you think.

Another example is the G maj 7523 form, one that requires 2 minutes of torture to achieve. The 4523 form lacks a 5 but if its acceptable for D why not for G. Is it the voice the chord makes that makes it's use preferable ?

The "chop" G will come pretty soon. Try starting moving that form up to a C chord and get used to it there and move it back down the neck a fret at a time. Again, it all depends on what's being playing in the rest of the band and what you're playing before and after. Nothing wrong with leaving out a note of the chord. Unless you're the only guy playing that note. But you would have figured that out when listening to the rest of the band.

Not trying to shed the hard work and practice required to play this genre, just looking for some direction. Thanks

You opened one big a$$ can-o-worms. Nice job! There are way too many musicians that never start the think vertically (as in reading a full orchestra score). It's a big leap to think of the entire band as one instrument, but it's part of what makes great sounding groups sound great.

[Mandoplumb]

I play BG, have for many years and I use many chord shapes. The traditional chop chord has a sound all it's own and does not take 2 minutes torture once you learn it. The thing is one chord shape bores the crap out of me as a player and as a listener. Don't rely on one shape, you are the "drum" in a BG band when playing rhythm, vary chords and have fun.

[Jim Broyles]

The 7452 is known as the D chop chord. I do not like it for the reason you inquired about - two roots, two thirds and no fifth and it sounds weak to me. I use 245x for my D chop when it is the V chord. For other uses I'll play 745x. All four strings are not required.

The 7523 G chord is also known as a chop chord and with practice it gets easier to grab. The 4523 with the third in the bass doesn't have the chop "power" of the 7523 but it's perfectly acceptable if it's easier to grab.

Stick with it. The stretchy chords get easier with repetition.

[Simon DS]

In some cases volume may be a factor too. I read somewhere that a jazz chord placed within a standard major scale can actually sound lounder just because it’s different. Maybe doublestops too. Which is the loudest 1/3, 1/5 or 3/5 doublestops?

[saltydawg]

Great responses, thank you. You have given me a new understanding and direction. This is like learning a new instrument compared to my previous experience of playing ol time/ celtic fiddle tunes.

[Dave Sheets]

This is one of the beautiful things about the world, there's always more to learn. Changing up your chord voicings is one way to add interest to the tunes. It helps a lot playing contra dances, where you can be on one tune a long time. Mandolin is such a fun instrument because you can play rhythm parts, melody and harmony all at once. Keeps those long dances interesting.