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Thread: Loar copy on Craigslist

  1. #1
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Loar copy on Craigslist

    Looks pretty nice, especially if it was built in 1978 as the seller claims. But who on earth could have built it? The F5Ls from 1978 don't have Loar signature labels in them, do they?

    32200068 is not a valid Gibson serial number, BTW. A real 1978 F5L should have a serial number in the form 7xxx8xxx.

    https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/...580041958.html
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    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loar copy on Craigslist

    No Loar there but a nice looking mandolin! A lot wrong for a REAL Loar, If 78 I'd say built by one of the builders of the time? or from the Siminoff book? I just read the add closer and it said Gibson employee built?

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    Default Re: Loar copy on Craigslist

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrasser78 View Post
    I just read the add closer and it said Gibson employee built?
    That would be my guess as well. BEAUTIFUL mandolin . . . although personally I could live without the 'Carpenter clamp input jack'.

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    Default Re: Loar copy on Craigslist

    This story seems strange. Roger Siminoff was working with Gibson to build the first 3 F-5L prototypes in 1978. I question any "former Gibson employee" would be building that mandolin in that time period? According to Roger there were only three mandolin builders at Kalamazoo in 1978. But stranger things have happened I suppose.
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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loar copy on Craigslist

    Ad doesn't say "Gibson employee" or "former Gibson employee." It says "This is a Gibson luthier built F5." Which, thanks to the absence of punctuation, is somewhat vague, perhaps intentionally so. It doesn't look 40 years old to me, but what do I know?
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  7. #6
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loar copy on Craigslist

    It’s pretty, not a “Frightening” amount of money, provenance might be a little sketchy but, it might be a pearl.
    None of the builders involved, with the project, at that time would have seriously tried to fake the labels. Simply not in those guys sense of propriety!
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  8. #7
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loar copy on Craigslist

    The bogus serial number is a sign that the builder wasn't seriously attempting to deceive anyone.
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  9. #8

    Default Re: Loar copy on Craigslist

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmando View Post
    It doesn't look 40 years old to me, but what do I know?
    Looks quite recent, IMHO. Was anyone removing the frets on the Florida 40 years ago?

  10. #9

    Default Re: Loar copy on Craigslist

    It is actually a pretty good looking mandolin.
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  11. #10
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loar copy on Craigslist

    Seller emailed me back, claiming the mandolin was built by "a Gibson Luthier for himself" and now he says it was built "about 30 years ago."

    Is it possible that someone working at Gibson in the '80s built himself a personal F5 with a scooped extension and a fake Loar label?

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    Default Re: Loar copy on Craigslist

    The comment about the case seems a little awkward. What can make a Gibson style case deteriorate beyond usability in 30 years? That sounds like some hard wear for such a pristine instrument. I've seen 50 year old cases that are still going strong.
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    Default Re: Loar copy on Craigslist

    That mandolin has Gotoh tuners on it. What year did we start seeing those?
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    Registered User Eric Platt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loar copy on Craigslist

    Am surprised Gibson would let an employee made personal mandolin have the Loar labels. Martin used to have (maybe still does) specific rules that employees must follow in making personal instruments. Just seems strange.
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    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loar copy on Craigslist

    I’m pretty sure that the company had nothing to do with the labels, or the build.
    Here in Kalamazoo there were a significant number of parts found their way to home shops, some people were better than others. This one might be one of the “better” ones but, the labels were “aftermarket” printed. Well, at least from my perspective.
    Whether or not this is made up from company components would be pretty hard to say but,who knows?
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  18. #15
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    Default Re: Loar copy on Craigslist

    Repro Master Model labels were easily available in the '70's through the '90's.

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  20. #16
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loar copy on Craigslist

    Quote Originally Posted by rcc56 View Post
    Repro Master Model labels were easily available in the '70's through the '90's.
    And there is that little bit of history put to rest.
    Timothy F. Lewis
    "If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett

  21. #17
    Registered User Troy Engle's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loar copy on Craigslist

    Looks like a Cliff Sargent F-5 Copy. Cliff was in CA, so that may be the case. He built some very nice sounding Loar-esqe copies, non were intended to deceive. This is a good deal if it is a Sargent. Rhonda Vincent plays several of his mandos.

  22. #18
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loar copy on Craigslist

    Yeah, that there is the thing. The only other detail the seller can offer is that the luthier is now deceased. Seller got it from a friend of a friend's dog walker blah blah blah. If I had proof that this was something that Charlie Derrington built for himself, or if I knew it was a Sargent, then I could find an appropriate price for it if I ever wanted to sell it.

    Did Sargent put a signature or label on the underside of his tops, as I've heard of some Loar-copiers doing?
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    Default Re: Loar copy on Craigslist

    I’ve got a Sargent, and Cliff definitely left no doubt that he was the builder, but you have to look in the right spot. His Loar signature and date are much more refined than this one, and he was very clever with both of them. However, I'm only familiar with the one that I own.

  24. #20

    Default Re: Loar copy on Craigslist

    Contacted seller for a look-see... watch this space.

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  26. #21
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    Default Re: Loar copy on Craigslist

    “Watch this space” I love it!
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  27. #22

    Default Re: Loar copy on Craigslist

    Please educate me, as I must be missing something, or it seems there is a double-standard in place......regarding this particular listing. Obvious to most this is not a Gibson, but a tribute or counterfeit copy. When similar things get listed on eBay, there seems to be a great concern or interest to get the listing taken down at the utmost dispatch, so some innocent unknowing victim doesn't get taken for a ride. HOWEVER, in this case, the mandolin seems to be getting great interest and no mention of a violation or removing the listing. What gives?

    Good looking mandolin, BTW. Probably would fool most pawn shops and Guitar Center employees.....

  28. #23
    Registered User Tom C's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loar copy on Craigslist

    It looks well made. Just look at that scroll on peg head. Looks great. Woods and finish look great. Almost wish I wasn't renovating my kitchen next week.

  29. #24
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Loar copy on Craigslist

    This seller's details are fuzzy but he isn't intentionally representing the instrument as a real-deal Loar or even a real Gibson, just a personal project by a "Gibson Luthier." That might or might not be true, but the seller is at least being forthright about what he thinks he knows and not trying to mislead anyone.
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  31. #25

    Default Re: Loar copy on Craigslist

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmando View Post
    This seller's details are fuzzy but he isn't intentionally representing the instrument as a real-deal Loar or even a real Gibson, just a personal project by a "Gibson Luthier." That might or might not be true, but the seller is at least being forthright about what he thinks he knows and not trying to mislead anyone.
    His title states, Gibson F5 Loyd (sp.) Loar Mandolin in excellent condition.....

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