Choices for a single mic.....

[Oliver R]

Hello,
We play in a duo / trio, ITM, old timey tunes and a bit of singing with harmonys.
We colectively play guitar/zouk/mandolin - flute and fiddleX2
I'm looking for a single mic set up to sit around and have been looking at these,
https://www.thomann.de/gb/telefunken_m82.htm
https://www.thomann.de/gb/neumann_tlm_102_bk.htm

We were going to go 'ear trumpet' at first but i think that would probably have been for more aesthetic reasons and I dont want to start yet another discussion on that subject!

Any advice appreciated (I am no expert)

[BradKlein]

It's probably worth mentioning if you're primarily looking for a mic for recording or for public performance.

Also, since one is a dynamic and one a condensor, it's worth thinking about what you are plugging into - whether PA or recording studio.

PS For live performance, I usually suggest finding a used Audio Technica 4033. It's not a true large diaphragm mic, which probably helps it resist feedback - and its sound seems to work very well on most PAs. I've heard it outperform a Neumann U89i in an above average PA - although the Neumann is obviously a much better mic for recording. I'm not saying that the right efforts could not have made the Neumann work, just in the real world, the 4033 gets the job done, and very nicely. (see the videos in my signature for many examples - recorded directly through the mic, not the PA)

[Oliver R]

Good point Brad!
It will be for performing, running into a small PA.
Yes, I have read good stuff regarding the AT4033....cheaper as well.

[pops1]

If you can also get a GoRack, I only use the anti feedback feature and the mute, but it gives you a lot more volume before feedback.

[BradKlein]

Good point Brad!
It will be for performing, running into a small PA.
Yes, I have read good stuff regarding the AT4033....cheaper as well.

So if you don't have phantom power on your PA, that's a strong case for the Telefunken. And also, 'looks' do count for something and it's a good looking microphone - and it's 'end address' and that may look nice on stage. I haven't used one, but I'm sure it's above average for front of house sound.

Two more things to consider are proximity effect - which can be a good or bad thing depending on how much your trio moves in and out from the microphone to vary the 'mix' - present to some degree on most directional microphones. And resistance to wind and plosives from vocals if you move in close.

My love for the 4033 is both that it tends to work well with a variety of PAs, AND that it is easily obtained on the used market and can be quite a bargain, commonly selling for $200 US plus or minus including the very useful shock mount!

[Oliver R]

Yep, I like the look of that mic also, very 'old world'.
We dont move a vast amount, kind of 'lean into it' a bit on solos.
Now then, am I correct in thinking 'end address' means you have the mic pointing towards you like a conventional mic as opposed to upright? if so that may cut back on the mic picking up audience noise to the rear of it?

As you say though the 4033 is a no brainer cash wise..

[Beanzy]

An option I've been using is the AKG P420 Dual-Capsule Condenser.
The dual capsule gives a very useful cardoid if you’ve got a bunch around the mic & the figure of 8 pattern is great for sticking between a duo L&R.
It’s very transparent in that it doesn’t tend to do anything distinctive to the source.
This makes if a bit ‘boring’ as a recording mic, but very useful and great for mixed sources through one mic.
Not had any problems yet from the fold-back monitors.
I got mine for about £160 (including the case & basket)
A good idea to get a pop shield if you’re having people lean in.

[Oliver R]

Looks good also Eoin ....too much choice!!

[BradKlein]

Now then, am I correct in thinking 'end address' means you have the mic pointing towards you like a conventional mic as opposed to upright? if so that may cut back on the mic picking up audience noise to the rear of it?

That's right.It looks like a side address mic, so they've even labeled it, so folks know to talk into the 'end'. I don't think it contributes much to the directionality of a mic. Cardioid is cardioid, basically, and rejects the signal from behind, although it can be achieved several different ways.



It's aimed at the same market as the EV RE-20, a classic for radio broadcasters and voice-over, where moving in very close, creates a pleasantly deep rich sound due to the proximity effect. But that could get very boomy in a live setting, if you were to move right up close, just a couple centimeters from the end.

And I suspect it has much more pop resistance and internal wind shields than many 'studio' mics - given its target market - and that's good. External pop filters look pretty bad for a live show. Fine in the studio. Not good in a club where they block the view and create visual distraction.

[Beanzy]

This is the pop shield I use. It’s only a bit bigger than the mic & fits inside the cage legs no pproblem (different cage to stock photo) it’s really just to stop people spitting on the mic more than anything.

[BradKlein]

^^^ That's a great example of what I hate to see on stage - although not as bad as the ring pop filters used in studios. If you're singing close enough to need the pop shield at a live show, you're using the wrong microphone - in my opinion.

I can think of exceptions - recording a live album maybe...

PS I recognize that many 'studio' microphones have almost no filtering behind the grill to maximize acoustic tranparency -- and they are made with the assumption that a pop filter will be used with them. So if that's what you're using on stage, you may need to do something.

[Beanzy]

I’m just not keen on people without mic training getting too close to my mics, once it’s up there some folks assume you have to lean in because that’s how they always behave near a mic.
I have a foam wind shield, but they look weird in the cage

[mandroid]

to reduce head banging my friends use 2 cardioid AKG side address mics right next to each other,
On same stand.
so have a wider area for the sensitivity pattern ,for the 5 of them.
but still have the Cardioid edge cut off and null portions for monitor placement to deal with feedback.

[mandroid]

I’m just not keen on people without mic training getting too close to my mics, once it’s up there some folks assume you have to lean in because that’s how they always behave near a mic.
I have a foam wind shield, but they look weird in the cage

Dynamic mics tolerate Spit, and so that is your close vocal mic..

condenser types work better for the mic shy , who don't move closer.. spoken voice I got a low cost one.. good enough for PA.

[wayfaringstranger]

My band uses a modified version of this technique. We combine a single side-address condenser mic at center stage with two small-diaphragm condensers, one off to each side 3-4 feet today so that we don't lose guitar and mandolin rhythm and fills when they're off the main mic). We've used it in everything from tiny bars to fairly large theaters to outdoors, and it works really well, although there are definitely tradeoffs. Good EQ is kind of a requirement to avoid feedback and unless you're working with a good sound engineer, there are a lot of situations where monitors won't work.

Thoughts on specific mics based on ones we use / have used:

- AT 4033 is the classic. It's already been covered pretty well in this thread. Reasonable price, especially used, and works great in part because it's not a full-on LDC. Get the shock mount.

- Ear Trumpet Louise. Sounds great. Built-in shock mount. Looks cool (may not be for everyone, but don't underestimate the value of visual appeal, particularly if you're being hired for an event as a bluegrass band out of central-casting)

- AT 2020. Similar the 4033, only cheaper (you can buy one new for about $100). Also not a full-on LDC. Sounds pretty good. Needs a shock mount for stage use, which you can find on eBay or Amazon. Sometimes sold as a set (AT 2041) for about $160 that includes one 2020 and one 2021. The 2021 is a pretty good sounding instrument mic, and it's really compact. I keep one in my mandolin case.

[Trey Young]

Another vote for the AT 2020 here, based on my experiences. I used to have the AT 4033, but with the full 360 pattern it picked up too much crowd noise and with the PA systems I was playing through there was not much difference in sound quality. Although for recording the 4033 is superior to the 2020.

[lukmanohnz]

I don't have experience with the 2020 or 4033, but I own two AT 4050s and these have served me well for many years in a variety of studio and live settings. The 4050 is closer in price to the Neumann you are considering. I've played live in a duo setting with that Neumann and it was wonderful as well. The advantage of the 4050 is its switchable polar pattern which gives it a lot of flexibility for different applications. One of my 4050s is now on semi-permanent loan to my son who just used it in a small venue live setting for capturing vocals and guitar. It worked perfectly in a somewhat challenging live sound situation.

[BradKlein]

I used to have the AT 4033, but with the full 360 pattern it picked up too much crowd noise and with the PA systems I was playing through there was not much difference in sound quality. Although for recording the 4033 is superior to the 2020.

The AT-4033 is a single pattern mic. Cardioid-only. So there may have been some other problem at that gig.

[TonyP]

Another vote for the AT 2020 here, based on my experiences. I used to have the AT 4033, but with the full 360 pattern it picked up too much crowd noise and with the PA systems I was playing through there was not much difference in sound quality. Although for recording the 4033 is superior to the 2020.

The time I had the crowd noise problem(which I'd never had before) was when I'd inadvertently mounted the 4033 backwards, with the capsule towards the crowd, DOH!

[BradKlein]

You've done a public service - helping us ALL feel better about the boneheaded mistakes we've (I've) made while recording. Hard to get it right every time!

[Strad]

I agree with Trey, you can't beat the 2020 for gigs we use one for vocals and small instrument condesors for instruments. It works really well for us and it's very rugged.