Column: Beyonce's Message and What It Means for Bluegrass

[Ivan Kelsall]

Jamie - While understanding your point perfectly,i wonder just how many youngsters do actually know / understand the legacy of Bill Monroe. Many youngsters are awed by the technical aspects of playing & simply wish to emulate their 'idols' & become 'superpickers'. IMHO - all too often they and up being able to play all the notes but NONE of the music. They play without any real feeling for the music & just don't 'communicate'. I've seen that all too often even over here. A group of talented players will form a band,but when they play,they play as individuals,not 'together' as a band. It makes me wonder just how much 'Trad.' Bluegrass music they've listened to to be able to know ''how it works & how it should sound''.

I'm thankful that there are still some good younger bands coming through the ranks,playing 'trad. style Bluegrass,
Ivan

[vetus scotia]

They play without any real feeling for the music & just don't 'communicate'.

How, may I ask, do you know what someone else is feeling? And how do you know that the breakdown in communication is not a lack of receptivity on your part, rather than a lack of communication skills on theirs?

And why does this imperative for historical discovery always seem to conclude with WSM? Isn't that the point of the thread? Some canned history of BG music that makes Monroe the beginning and the end of BG history is not, for lack of a better term, true.

[Jess L.]

... A group of talented players will form a band,but when they play,they play as individuals,not 'together' as a band. ...

Lack of experience. Happens in all genres, not just bluegrass. Some of the players will get better.

Whether it's the neighborhood rock garage band, or bluegrass or oldtime or Irish trad or whatever, sounding good in a group requires the ability to listen to the overall sound and how one's instrument fits in with that, recognize if it doesn't fit and change the playing to correct that, rather than just focusing all one's attention on only the instrument being played.

That ability doesn't happen overnight, it takes a lot of practice and time. Some of the young bands that Ivan referred to, just might not have reached that level yet. Some might not ever reach that level due to differing abilities, but they can't *all* be bad... can they?

[Ivan Kelsall]

Quote - " How, may I ask, do you know what someone else is feeling ? ". I didn't say that i knew what '' someone else is feeling'' - i should have said ''that they play the music without any feeling'' = it's pretty darned bland & expressionless.

JL277z - It's not a simple matter of a lack of experience with some of the younger guys,they want to 'shine as individuals' & being part of a band is secondary. We've all seen sportsmen who,even as part of a team, don't pass the ball or 'whatever' when they should,they try to go it alone so they can grab the glory & often louse up. Sometimes egos can be a bad thing, & more than a few bands ( not neccessarily Bluegrass bands) have folded because of it,
Ivan

[FLATROCK HILL]

How, may I ask, do you know what someone else is feeling? And how do you know that the breakdown in communication is not a lack of receptivity on your part, rather than a lack of communication skills on theirs?

This is a hard question to answer. If you've never recognized the difference between a musician that plays with feeling and one who plays without, it really can't be explained. It's like asking "how do you know that instrument is out of tune?" If you can't tell, you can't tell.

And why does this imperative for historical discovery always seem to conclude with WSM? Isn't that the point of the thread? Some canned history of BG music that makes Monroe the beginning and the end of BG history is not, for lack of a better term, true.

What "canned history" would that be? To deny Bill Monroe's place in BG history is just silly. Sure, in most any musical genre there are many influences that come together... ingredients that comprise the result. If the result you're discussing is Bluegrass music, then yes, by definition WSM is pretty much the "beginning and end"

This is like discussing wine and asking "what makes grapes so important?"

Edit: Sorry Ivan, I see you jumped in on your own behalf while I was jumping in for you!

[JEStanek]

I’m not so sure I’d really ever want to see Bill Monroe “twerking” or offering the at Ms. Knowles provides ad nauseum in her video offerings. To be honest, I’m not that wild about most of the style using the pelvis as a “new”musical instrument. Well some think it’s new.

I don't think WSM minded when Elvis the Pelvis made him so much money.

Re: GangstaGrass - some mash ups work. Snoop Dog and Willie Nelson dedicated to Johnny Cash.



Jamie

[JEStanek]

Playing with feeling or emotion is often subjective (not always but often). I hear ya. In general, I don't really like covers of songs because I usually love the first version I have heard and covers tend to either do exact copies (a tad boring unless live) or they add their own nuances that can be cringe worthy (evidenced by Taylor Swift Covering the phenomenal September by Earth Wind and Fire - Oh, T-Swizzle, you shouldn't have).

I've heard really technical players kick but with soul and others who can't. I've heard marginally technical players rip the soul and some who can't. There's a lot of music out there. I'm happy to have the stuff that I dig. I'm happy to know the history behind a good bit of it as well.

Jamie

[Willie Poole]

I do believe that Black folks were sort of left out when it came to country or bluegrass music...I had gig booked one evening years ago and my bass player came down sick and he called me and said he would send his friend to fill in for him and that was a good bass player and could follow just about every song we played, when he showed up he was a black man and he was one of the best bass players that I ever had in my band he also sang baritone and knew just about every bluegrass song that there was..This bass player was also an anchor news man on one of the local TV channels... When we got set up to start this bass player said to me, "Willie, I feel like a ####### at a family reunion" meaning he wondered if he would be accepted, I told him that if he wasn`t the whole band would just leave........

Another time I was playing in a bar in Northeast DC and a black man was sitting at the bar and I noticed that he was mouthing the words to just about every song that I sang so during a break I went over and talked to him and he said he had a record collection of just about every bluegrass recording ever made and he liked coming to this particular bar because they always had bluegrass and he couldn`t find it anywhere else in that area, he named off names of bluegrass players that I had never heard of, he was familiar with every song that we played and could cite what album they were on and who recorded each song...I was amazed by his knowledge of bluegrass music...

Bluegrass doesn`t know any color barrier

[Timbofood]

Folks we are all missing one little fact much closer to home!
One of the most generous and sensitive members of this forum we have is DataNick! His knowledge knows no color, nor his kindness any barriers.

Never said WSM wasn’t happy to be receiving any of those “Powerful” checks from Elvis, just that I’d rather not see HIM (WSM) twerk.

[dhergert]

... Bluegrass doesn`t know any color barrier

I wish that were true. It is better in some parts of the country and it is better now then it used to be. But it's not completely true.

I could tell stories... But best to say, there's still some distance to go.

Also, not at all editorializing about Beyonce's presentation, but Coachella is not known for its bluegrass programming content. I think it's somewhat of a stretch to try to tie bluegrass and Coachella together in an article.

[Timbofood]

Don, people will always be short sighted with respect to color. It will take many more years for that to be a thing of the past. Doubt it will happen our lifetime.
Coachella, is a mainstream music self absorbed bunch of media hype Hooey!
The bigger problem I see is that if we continue to remove all the monuments of the past, we will end up repeating it, case in point is the removal of a statue from the city park in Kalamazoo, it is listed on the National historic register but, it seems to offend some minority so, is being swept under a rug so to speak. What I see is when we remove thought generating pieces of art, overly homogenize the world so, “no one is offended” we lessen the very principles onwhich this country was founded are being called into question.
End rant.
I don’t watch Beyoncé, never have bothered other than getting to another station, not that she isn’t talented, I just don’t care.