For Big Band and Jazz

[LKN2MYIS]

For someone looking to play traditional "Big Band" music (American standards and classics), and some occasional jazz (NO bluegrass), should they choose an F4 or an F5?

The guy also plays some Ry Cooder, and looking at some early Cooder stuff I've seen him with both.

He definitely wants an F-style Gibson

Which would you recommend to him - the F4 or F5?

[LKN2MYIS]

I had recommended the F5 for versatility, btw. His focus is on the F4, but I feel it will be limited.

[pops1]

Well as one who plays an A, but have an oval (F4) sound and ff holes (F5) sound I find the ff hole to be able to do everything I need it to do. I don't really play bluegrass. I do however like the accessibility the longer neck to body gives me on the ff hole instrument. If
your friend plays up the neck the F5 may be better, I don't think I have seen a Gibson F4 with a modern neck unless it has been modified.

[LKN2MYIS]

Thanks for the input. I agree with you, but want to get more input before I have the discussion with him. Don't want to steer him wrong.

[Daniel Nestlerode]

For a big band, he'll probably want to amplify.
Tiny Moore played Bigsby style chambered body electrics
Johnny Gimble played an oval hole A strung with 4 strings, tuned down to mandola, and slapped a pickup on it.

Something to consider...
Daniel

[LKN2MYIS]

I understand. Where he is coming from is pretty much that he plays that type of music alone, solo, in his den. If he ever played with anyone, he'll consider amplification then (according to his current strategy).

I believe he'll end up with an F5, but I want to make sure he considers all aspects. He isn't a computer guy, and has asked me for advice.

[Eric Hanson]

I don’t have any experience with an F4, but I do have experience watching and listening to a band called “Harmonious Wail”. They focus on Gypsy Jazz (quite well, IMO). The mandolin player has an F5. He has it amplified so he can be better heard against the Bass and guitar players. It is a wonderful sound.
The other one to look at as a reference is Chris Thile. I have seen him play a number of times with different others, in a couple of bands. He uses a clip on mic. I thinnk it is Audio Technica. I spoke briefly with him in the past at one of the shows. He likes it because of what it can give to hiim in sound. And, if he wants to play in a smaller setting, he just doesn’t put it on.
Sorry for the ramble. I wish I had more personal experience. The mandolin game is still something I am in the process of exploring and experiencing.
Also. Have you checked on the website jazzmando.com? There is quite a bit of information for the jazz player. I like the review of a Jacobson they have. It mentions a few of the desired tones for a mandolin playing jazz. Check out the section entitled, “Builders for the 21st Century”. Good reading.
Success to you on whatever he ends up with!

[LKN2MYIS]

Eric, thanks for the input. I'm a big fan of JazzMando AND Harmonious Wail! And I'm a big fan of Chris Thile.

My pal's bend is more towards "Misty", "Perfidia", "Take The A Train", etc. That being said, he also doesn't like bluegrass.

I've told my friend so far that that F5 is pretty much the standard, and would be more versatile in my opinion. I told him it wasn't necessary to buy a Gibson, but that he could look for a smaller builder with something used. He'll eventually take advice, but he's slow and determined to understand before making a purchase, which isn't a bad thing.

I plan on showing him this thread on my computer when I see him.

[Eric Hanson]

John,
I SO understand “slow and determined to understand before making a purchase”! I belabor a decision until the options are out of the way. I then jump on the decision like a duck on bug.
I too am not as much driven bluegrass wise. I enjoy so many kind of music. Harmonious Wail, Chris Thile, Tim O’Brien, Sam Bush, and others drove me to want to learn mandolin. Thus my taste is not genre specific.

There are so many builders doing amaing things with wood. Make sure to check out the threads on “The Gibson sound/tone”, here on the Cafe. It will give a little more definition to what that is. Bell like highs, strong mids, Powerful chop.

I personally went for a little more of a woody tone for I am wanting to play. So much of this is subjective as to what is “the best tone”. It haas to be the best tone for the individual. He will find it. It just may take time. It has been stated on here FREQUENTLY, “Play as many as you can before making a decision.” It proved to be sagea advice when I was on the hunt for a new instrument.

Success to you, and to him!

[JEStanek]

For Jazz I would go with a Rigel or maybe the Phoenix Jazz Model. I would usually say f holes rather oval than F5 or F4. The scrolls and points don't matter tonally. I might suggest flatwound strings for both those styles and maybe changing the pick used.

You can certainly go with an oval hole, Jethro played both. I think the setting and other folks playing around you would influence which hole configuration will yield the best results along with how the instrument is amplified.

Jamie

[LKN2MYIS]

Sound advice, Jamie. Thanks!

[Mandoplumb]

If he's playing in his living room for his own enjoyment versatilely and projection doesn't matter. Go with which one HD likes the best!!

[Pete Martin]

My personal preference for Jazz is oval hole, but YMMV.

[pops1]

There are many ff hold instruments that don't have that bluegrass sound. I have both oval and ff and play the ff hole. I don't play bluegrass either. I think the most important things to consider here are, 1. do I LOVE the sound of the mandolin I am purchasing. 2. Does the neck have enough access to play what I am going to play. There are many ff hole instruments that can play any style of music and I play several styles.

I would second JE's thinking and look to a Phoenix, they have a model made just for jazz.

[DavidKOS]

My personal preference for Jazz is oval hole, but YMMV.

I play jazz on my flat-top mandolins and bowlbacks, I do not own one of those carved top things.