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Thread: F5 Scroll Question - One Piece or Three?

  1. #1
    Mando-Afflicted lflngpicker's Avatar
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    Default F5 Scroll Question - One Piece or Three?

    I am curious. In a purchase that fell through, I was surprised to see a scroll that had two added strips of wood (joined) to make it widen from the side piece that was one width (parallel) and needed to gain width as in rolled in toward the neck. The wood side by side did not match well and seemed odd. There was a strip on both sides as it rolled in, and these were a different color and the seams were visible. Is this a technique that is used on nice domestic mandolins, or was this a repair? There were other issues but I wanted to learn what to look for in custom built instruments where scrolls are concerned. Thanks for the expertise!
    2014 BRW F5 #114
    2022 Kentucky KM 950 Master Model

    YouTube Original Recording of My composition "Closer Walk"

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    Default Re: F5 Scroll Question - One Piece or Three?

    I had a nice handmade F mandolin years ago with a swell scroll and it had wood added on the top and bottom to make the scroll swell. I did not like it as it obscured the fingerboard up high.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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    Default Re: F5 Scroll Question - One Piece or Three?

    Pops1, I can understand the obscuring of the room to fret, but I guess you are indicating that this does occur in nicer domestic F5 builds. How well did they blend the wood strips added? The one I saw was a bit too evident for my taste. Thanks Pops1.
    2014 BRW F5 #114
    2022 Kentucky KM 950 Master Model

    YouTube Original Recording of My composition "Closer Walk"

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    Default Re: F5 Scroll Question - One Piece or Three?

    Since mine was blond with all the wood visible you could see the added on wood, tho the seams were visible, it was nicely done. It would be almost impossible to blend pieces of different wood with a clear finish and not be seen.

    On another topic I was reminiscing about Don and Mac today and thought of you.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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    Registered User jim simpson's Avatar
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    Default Re: F5 Scroll Question - One Piece or Three?

    The line that you are noticing is the point where the top and bottom plates join the sides. Note the illustration: the sides are the same width from one end to the other. You are seeing the top and bottom plates joining the side maple thus the difference in the woods appearance.
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    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: F5 Scroll Question - One Piece or Three?

    I think the OP refers to the exposed endgrain of top and back where binding rises up from rib level. Some makers make the scroll rise very early on and the exposed edges are very prominent, on Loars the rise starts at about 10-11 o'clock position on scroll (neck pointing up) so from normal playing perspective you wo'nt see it. The presence of the exposed endgrain wood can hardly be hidden against the contrasting side wood, only if the dark areas are finished in very opaque finish.
    Oh, and some makers build up binding to hide that or some add strips of maple below binding. I think there's no need if one keeps the exposed areas not too large.
    Adrian

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    Registered User sblock's Avatar
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    Default Re: F5 Scroll Question - One Piece or Three?

    Adrian -- in re-reading the OP's post, I think Jim Simpson understood it exactly. The OP speaks of "two added strips" that increase the thickness of the sides (ribs). These "strips" he thinks he's seeing, on top of, and below, the constant-width ribs are really the carved top and bottom, which gain thickness in the scroll region -- they are not additional rib elements. And yes, you are right, the grain runs differently in the ribs and carved top/bottom. You can see this joinery in virtually all F5 models.

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  12. #8
    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: F5 Scroll Question - One Piece or Three?

    Quote Originally Posted by sblock View Post
    Adrian -- in re-reading the OP's post, I think Jim Simpson understood it exactly. The OP speaks of "two added strips" that increase the thickness of the sides (ribs). These "strips" he thinks he's seeing, on top of, and below, the constant-width ribs are really the carved top and bottom, which gain thickness in the scroll region -- they are not additional rib elements. And yes, you are right, the grain runs differently in the ribs and carved top/bottom. You can see this joinery in virtually all F5 models.
    I somehow missed that post and the previous were a bit unclear. Perhaps I thought Jim was talking about the riser block as that was visible in the pic and didn't read the text...
    Adrian

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    I may be old but I'm ugly billhay4's Avatar
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    Default Re: F5 Scroll Question - One Piece or Three?

    Let me try: because the top and back are thicker at the scroll, and because the sides are a consistent width, some of the end grain of the top and back are exposed above the binding in the scroll area. This appears to be added layers, but is not. It is simply the extra thickness of the top and back in that area.
    Bill
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    Default Re: F5 Scroll Question - One Piece or Three?

    Quote Originally Posted by pops1 View Post
    Since mine was blond with all the wood visible you could see the added on wood, tho the seams were visible, it was nicely done. It would be almost impossible to blend pieces of different wood with a clear finish and not be seen.

    On another topic I was reminiscing about Don and Mac today and thought of you.
    Thanks Pops! Hardly a day goes by I don't think of my cousin, Don. He had so much humanity!. He could pick and sing with the best of them and his Hawaiian steel playing was superb. I didn't get the chance to know his dear friend and partner, Mac. He spoke very well of him. Nice of you to remember that. Don's passing was 2 years in May.
    2014 BRW F5 #114
    2022 Kentucky KM 950 Master Model

    YouTube Original Recording of My composition "Closer Walk"

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    Default Re: F5 Scroll Question - One Piece or Three?

    To you great mandolin builders/makers, I bow in respect! I do appreciate the information so much, although I sheepishly admit I did not know that this was a normal process or appearance. I am laughing at myself. What I saw was a bit too visible and awkward in the way way it unfolded, so I don't regret changing my mind about the purchase. There were other details that didn't work for me, either. Though, I understand what to look for now. Thank you so much!
    2014 BRW F5 #114
    2022 Kentucky KM 950 Master Model

    YouTube Original Recording of My composition "Closer Walk"

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    Registered User AaronVW's Avatar
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    Default Re: F5 Scroll Question - One Piece or Three?

    From a 1920 Gibson F4. Still very common to see this and it can be more prominent in instruments with lighter color finishes, as Adrian noted.... I kind of like how it looks, knowing what is going on with that detail helps.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    http://mowrystrings.com/F5gallery.htm#

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  20. #13
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    Default Re: F5 Scroll Question - One Piece or Three?

    Quote Originally Posted by AaronVW View Post
    From a 1920 Gibson F4. Still very common to see this and it can be more prominent in instruments with lighter color finishes, as Adrian noted.... I kind of like how it looks, knowing what is going on with that detail helps.
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	167053
    http://mowrystrings.com/F5gallery.htm#
    Yes, This is exactly what I was speaking of. You have to have one with the widening scroll to know about it! Well, the one I saw was a bit more rudimentary than this, but this is a clarifying example. Thank you!
    2014 BRW F5 #114
    2022 Kentucky KM 950 Master Model

    YouTube Original Recording of My composition "Closer Walk"

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