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Thread: Supreme Court

  1. #26

    Default Re: Supreme Court

    Quote Originally Posted by brunello97 View Post
    There already was a pretty good group with the name "The Supremes".

    Mick
    Not bad, but the original "supremes" , while having many group member changes over the years, has been around a LOT longer, like since 1789.

    Yet we never get to see them on tv.

  2. #27

    Default Re: Supreme Court

    I would think any inconvenience might be mitigated by the fact that if there was sales tax levied, one might be more inclined to buy locally rather than use the mom and pop as a demo store and then buying online. Say you are buying a Collings. I would now save 9% over buying local just for the tax. I would then be faced with the option of paying a bit more at the mom and pop, orsight unseen at an out of state store. I'd be inclined to buy the one I could play. Now I'd pay the higher price plus the tax. That is a chunk of change on a $4000 mandolin.

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  3. #28
    MandolaViola bratsche's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supreme Court

    Quote Originally Posted by allenhopkins View Post
    Not sure how many "mom and pops" have significant interstate on-line commerce, but I've gone on several websites that proudly proclaim, "No sales tax." That may change; one of the charges Pres. Trump is levying against Amazon, is that Amazon customers don't pay local sales taxes. And it's probably true that the trend toward on-line sales is cutting into local sales tax revenues, to some extent. However, the vast majority of day-to-day purchases are not on-line, so they involve tax payments; for example, there are state and local taxes on all restaurant meals in NY, so your Big Mac contributes support to your local and state government.
    I've been an Amazon customer for long enough to remember the good old days when they charged no sales tax on anything, but it has gradually increased to the point where it seems about 3/4 of my purchases there are now taxed. We seldom go out shopping at either "mom and pop" or "big box" stores, but buy most of our household's day-to-day stuff online - just about everything except food, and whatever we can't find (or can't find cheaper) at the wholesale clubs or thrift stores. And yes, if I can find a site that sells something tax-free and the price is comparable, we'll buy it there instead of being taxed elsewhere.

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  4. #29
    NY Naturalist BradKlein's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supreme Court

    It may be that this is the mandolin that was on his mind...

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    But on the other hand, he speaks glowingly of Hamilton, and of opera, so just maybe there is an 8-string in his past somewhere...
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  5. #30
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supreme Court

    Quote Originally Posted by DHopkins View Post
    You make a good point. Who's gonna audit those businesses to be sure they're properly distributing the money?
    Well ... I have a business license in my home state, which is how the state department of revenue knows that it should ask me every year for the sales tax I have collected. If we end up with a federal law requiring retailers to collect sales tax nationwide, you can bet that states will follow up with laws requiring those retailers to register or obtain a license in every state. If you use PayPal or other services to collect payments, your transactions will be reported to the federal government, and they may be available to state governments as well.

    Government officials in different states have different priorities. Some states are really concerned about voter fraud, and officials in those states are going after every voting irregularity they can find. Other states, not so much. It's not too much of a stretch to imagine that Official X in State Y will decide to focus on sales tax fraud, and audit as many mom-and-pops nationwide as his or her office possibly can.
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  6. #31
    Fatally Flawed Bill Kammerzell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supreme Court

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeZito View Post
    This will probably be debated by the same group of geniuses who, several years ago, decided that tomato paste on a pizza is a vegetable . . . .
    Any idea what they decided on the pepperoni? Steak?
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  7. #32
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    Default Re: Supreme Court

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmando View Post
    Well ... I have a business license in my home state, which is how the state department of revenue knows that it should ask me every year for the sales tax I have collected. If we end up with a federal law requiring retailers to collect sales tax nationwide, you can bet that states will follow up with laws requiring those retailers to register or obtain a license in every state. If you use PayPal or other services to collect payments, your transactions will be reported to the federal government, and they may be available to state governments as well.

    Government officials in different states have different priorities. Some states are really concerned about voter fraud, and officials in those states are going after every voting irregularity they can find. Other states, not so much. It's not too much of a stretch to imagine that Official X in State Y will decide to focus on sales tax fraud, and audit as many mom-and-pops nationwide as his or her office possibly can.
    Taking it further, I don't think the federal government would pass a law requiring the states to collect their own taxes.

    Regarding the actual collection of the taxes, it seems impractical because there no reasonable way for state tax people in Atlanta to know whether the guy selling strings out of his house in Pocatello, Idaho, is collecting tax on a sale to me in Columbus, GA. If nobody collects the taxes, what kind and how many legal cases would flood the courts and furthermore, how would they know about the sale in the first place?

    That is not to say the Supreme Court won't require the businesses to collect taxes. Sometimes the Court is logical and sometimes they're not. I can't fathom what kind of monitoring system would have to be put in place to insure the $0.50 in taxes collected in Pocatello is sent to Atlanta (and Columbus, because we have local sales taxes) and the millions of duplicate situations that would occur every week across the nation.

    Now, what happens if I buy a mandolin from the Czech Republic?
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  8. #33
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supreme Court

    Quote Originally Posted by DHopkins View Post
    Regarding the actual collection of the taxes, it seems impractical because there no reasonable way for state tax people in Atlanta to know whether the guy selling strings out of his house in Pocatello, Idaho, is collecting tax on a sale to me in Columbus, GA.
    If you are using PayPal or Square or a similar service to pay him for those strings, then there is a way to know: the people in Atlanta will get the information from the payment processor. If you pay him with a check or money order, the transaction would be harder to trace.

    I sell strings out of my house a few hundred miles from Pocatello, and I have no more than a handful of customers who use nonelectronic forms of payment.
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  9. #34
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    Default Re: Supreme Court

    If there is a way for someone to avoid doing the right thing for a monetary gain, some jerk will do it and pee in the pool for everyone! I have no problem in paying taxes in my state, I’d prefer not to have “Grand Canyon” sized pot holes in ANY roads!
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  10. #35

    Default Re: Supreme Court

    And, by the way, some idiotic municipalities require separately collected and stated sales taxes. As local governments get pressed by increasing costs of running themselves (not to mention retirement payments) they are resorting to draconian measures. Same for Puerto Rico and two Canadian provinces. So it is not just a matter of collecting the taxes.
    By the way, collecting the taxes is relatively easy. Filing all the returns is a nightmare.

  11. #36
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    Default Re: Supreme Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Timbofood View Post
    If there is a way for someone to avoid doing the right thing for a monetary gain, some jerk will do it and pee in the pool for everyone! I have no problem in paying taxes in my state, I’d prefer not to have “Grand Canyon” sized pot holes in ANY roads!
    I don't have a problem either but I really don't want sellers to raise their prices because they have to help finance a huge system that going to have to monitor then disburse funds. If Mrmando sells me 2 sets of strings, he got to send about $.84 to Atlanta and, now the ridiculous part, $.14 to Columbus. Distributing the funds to each city that has a tax is going to be an overwhelming task for almost any business.
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  12. #37
    Registered User Kevin Stueve's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supreme Court

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmando View Post
    If you are using PayPal or Square or a similar service to pay him for those strings, then there is a way to know: the people in Atlanta will get the information from the payment processor. If you pay him with a check or money order, the transaction would be harder to trace.

    I sell strings out of my house a few hundred miles from Pocatello, and I have no more than a handful of customers who use nonelectronic forms of payment.
    Okay I'm a software developer for a company that serves as a payment processor for certain government entities First we get an amount and a bank acct number /routing number for ACH so would have no clue if taxes were included nor where the paying party lived. Now true for credit cards we may get address as well, it depends on if address verification is required or not. Still wouldn't know whether the amount included taxes. Second knowing the tax rates and disbursing the collected taxes will be nightmare that will drive the cost of payment processing up to the point that small web based companies will be unable to stay in business.
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  13. #38
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    Default Re: Supreme Court

    Seems to me that it would be about impossible to collect and pay sales tax in the same manner as a locality does. If the court rules that taxes must be paid there would have to be a different means of collecting. Maybe a percentage of total sales to each state, I can think of several simple ways this could be done, so I'm sure the government can come up with a very complicated way to do it.

  14. #39
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supreme Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Stueve View Post
    Okay I'm a software developer for a company that serves as a payment processor for certain government entities First we get an amount and a bank acct number /routing number for ACH so would have no clue if taxes were included nor where the paying party lived.
    Shrug. PayPal gets a lot more data than that: what was purchased, how much for shipping, how much for sales tax, complete mailing address, etc. If small retailers are going to have to send sales tax payments all over the country, then the processors that collect enough data to help them are going to win more business, and the processors that do not are going to lose business.
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  15. #40
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supreme Court

    Quote Originally Posted by DHopkins View Post
    If Mrmando sells me 2 sets of strings, he got to send about $.84 to Atlanta and, now the ridiculous part, $.14 to Columbus. Distributing the funds to each city that has a tax is going to be an overwhelming task for almost any business.
    Well, here in Washington I just send all the money to the state revenue department, and it will be up to those folks to send a cut back to my municipality.
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  16. #41
    Registered User Kevin Stueve's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supreme Court

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmando View Post
    Shrug. PayPal gets a lot more data than that: what was purchased, how much for shipping, how much for sales tax, complete mailing address, etc. If small retailers are going to have to send sales tax payments all over the country, then the processors that collect enough data to help them are going to win more business, and the processors that do not are going to lose business.
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  18. #42
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    Default Re: Supreme Court

    I don't know if my municipality ever gets anything - the office of the company I work for is about 70 miles north of me, I pay (very high) city taxes to them, I live in a township that I don't believe ever gets a cut of the taxes I pay to a city I am in once a year. The whole city tax system is crazy.

  19. #43
    NY Naturalist BradKlein's Avatar
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    I am frankly astonished that there is this much interest in sales tax law, and so little interest in whether Justice Breyer plays the mandolin or is close to someone who does! :-) I have contacted the public information officer at the SCOTUS. And hope to supply more information as it becomes available. I’ve had the pleasure of meeting several justices while working as a journalist, but the only one I’ve had a chance to sit and talk with is Sandra Day O’Connor. I failed to ask her whether she played any musical instrument. So now I have another chance perhaps with Justice Breyer.

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  20. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by BradKlein View Post
    I am frankly astonished that there is this much interest in sales tax law, and so little interest in whether Justice Breyer plays the mandolin or is close to someone who does! :-) I have contacted the public information officer at the SCOTUS. And hope to supply more information as it becomes available. I’ve had the pleasure of meeting several justices while working as a journalist, but the only one I’ve had a chance to sit and talk with is Sandra Day O’Connor. I failed to ask her whether she played any musical instrument. So now I have another chance perhaps with Justice Breyer.
    While it does interest me that others may play the mandolin, I am more concerned with financial factors that might impact my ability to maintain my own mandolin habit(s).
    David Hopkins

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    McCormick Oval Sound Hole "Reinhardt" Mandolin
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    The older I get, the less tolerant I am of political correctness, incompetence and stupidity.

  21. #45
    Certified! Bernie Daniel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Supreme Court

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Stueve View Post
    Okay I'm a software developer for a company that serves as a payment processor for certain government entities First we get an amount and a bank acct number /routing number for ACH so would have no clue if taxes were included nor where the paying party lived. Now true for credit cards we may get address as well, it depends on if address verification is required or not. Still wouldn't know whether the amount included taxes. Second knowing the tax rates and disbursing the collected taxes will be nightmare that will drive the cost of payment processing up to the point that small web based companies will be unable to stay in business.
    IMO the main problem with the current situation is the individuals are responsible for collecting taxes -- most don't do it and probably have no idea how to do it either. But they are vulnerable to the state suddenly making an example out of a few hundred citizens to scare the rest into compliance with a very obtuse requirement.

    Probably the best solution is for all internet sales be taxed at some set rate and that money supplied to the states regardless of what they would LIKE to collect?

    You note that some small web-based companies will be unable to stay it business. Probably true. But already many small brick and mortar business have been force to close because of (what I call) an unfair advantage of the on-line sellers. What is good for the Gander is good for the Goose?

    I concur with your by-line!
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