A vs F style

[Roger Moss]

What's a Blue Chip pick?

Ryk

Uh oh...here we go...

[sblock]

Look, if you buy an F style there should never be any question as to where to attach the strap. That in itself is enough for me.

And yet, Mike, world-class mandolinist Evan Marshall attaches the strap to the headstock of his Gilchrist F5 model. Go figure...

[MikeEdgerton]

If I could play like Evan I might do that as well. But I can't so I'll just use the built in strap hanger.

[j. condino]

If you ever get a chance to play the Griffith Loar A5, you'll never need to ask this question again!

[Mr5150]

I prefer the F over the A purely for looks. I had the money so I got the Eastman 515 instead of the 505. No regrets

[MikeEdgerton]

If you ever get a chance to play the Griffith Loar A5, you'll never need to ask this question again!

Yeah, I jones for the Ms. Griffith Loar. That would be the one to own.

[Mike Snyder]

OK, tell me this has never happened. A skilled builder has two on the bench, one A and one F. He knows that the A will require fewer hours to complete and will bring 3K when sold. The F will require many more hours of handwork and finishing and will net the builder, say 6 to 8K. The A sounds great and has a pleasing symmetrical shape. The F is a thunder box and a piece of sculpture. Because the F represents the highest level of accomplishment this luthier attains in craftsmanship and artistry, may she (or he) not strive for the perfect arching, or bracing profile, or thickness of top or back? Even unconsciously? Perhaps not. The amount of ability required to produce one of these amazing instruments is beyond my comprehension. But do they all get the deluxe treatment, especially if built in batches?

[Mandoplumb]

OK, tell me this has never happened. A skilled builder has two on the bench, one A and one F. He knows that the A will require fewer hours to complete and will bring 3K when sold. The F will require many more hours of handwork and finishing and will net the builder, say 6 to 8K. The A sounds great and has a pleasing symmetrical shape. The F is a thunder box and a piece of sculpture. Because the F represents the highest level of accomplishment this luthier attains in craftsmanship and artistry, may she (or he) not strive for the perfect arching, or bracing profile, or thickness of top or back? Even unconsciously? Perhaps not. The amount of ability required to produce one of these amazing instruments is beyond my comprehension. But do they all get the deluxe treatment, especially if built in batches?

Y'all just keep coming up with reasons to buy an F. The advarage builder probably could make more money if he could sell all the A's he could make than if he could sell all the F's. Wouldn't apply to the very top tier makers but for the rest the volume would make the money. The only reason to buy a good F over a good A is looks. If you can afford it and want it, buy it, but don't try to tell me it's better than my Dearstone A.

[Charlie Bernstein]

What's a Blue Chip pick?

Ryk

It's like what they say about yachts. If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

[Charlie Bernstein]

OK, tell me this has never happened. A skilled builder has two on the bench, one A and one F. He knows that the A will require fewer hours to complete and will bring 3K when sold. The F will require many more hours of handwork and finishing and will net the builder, say 6 to 8K. The A sounds great and has a pleasing symmetrical shape. The F is a thunder box and a piece of sculpture. Because the F represents the highest level of accomplishment this luthier attains in craftsmanship and artistry, may she (or he) not strive for the perfect arching, or bracing profile, or thickness of top or back? Even unconsciously? Perhaps not. The amount of ability required to produce one of these amazing instruments is beyond my comprehension. But do they all get the deluxe treatment, especially if built in batches?

Richard Feder, you ask a lot of questions for a guy from Fort Lee, New Jersey!

[gspiess]

The reality is that almost every subject possible has been flogged to death. Without rehashiig threads, there would be few new threads at all. No fun in that, so we are waiting for you to ask if Blue Chip picks are really worth the money.

I don't think we've ever discussed the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow.

[LastMohican]

F.

Coz that's what Bill played.

[Eric Oliver]

I don't think we've ever discussed the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow.

African or European?

[MikeEdgerton]

F.

Coz that's what Bill played.

But he started on an A.

[Eric Oliver]

If you ever get a chance to play the Griffith Loar A5, you'll never need to ask this question again!

If the Griffith A is the best mandolin ever what can you suggest comes in second?

[gspiess]

African or European?

It shouldn't matter, they both sound the same....unless of course...they don't.

[JeffD]

But do they all get the deluxe treatment, especially if built in batches?

I don't know. I mean, I know what you mean, but I am not sure its true. I think the small shop and individual luthier more likely feels something like this: I cannot afford to have anything out there with my name on it that is not the very best I can do.

It is likely true that because the F style commands a bit more money in the market the builder can afford to put a little more time into it, but I have to believe that the scroll and points themselves take up all that time.


But don't listen to me. I have never made anything in my life.

[mandolin tony]

God give the guy a break. some people here need to take A course in how to be nice & talk to other people. listen to Mike. an if you want to get something a little better get a Eastman or Kentucky. I have an older Loar 600 & to me the Kentucky & Eastman mandolins blow my Loar mandolin away in fit, finish & sound. sound wise to me their the same.

[MikeEdgerton]

If the Griffith A is the best mandolin ever what can you suggest comes in second?

The Ms. Griffith Loar is the only Lloyd Loar signed mandolin that was an A style. That's a very special instrument because it's a one-of-a-kind mandolin. The number of F style mandolins signed by Lloyd Loar when he was at Gibson aren't a huge number either but they are sought after instruments. This thread has a ton of information about it.

If someone is just starting this mandolin journey the best advice anyone can give you is to actually play as many instruments as you can. Nobody but you can determine what sounds best to you. My personal journey finally landed me at Mandolin Brothers (RIP Stan Jay) in Staten Island, NY. I played every mandolin they had on the wall and kept coming back to the one that spoke to me. Eventually we all end up finding that special one. Some of us will always be seeking another mandolin. It's part of the disease we call Mandolin Acquisition Syndrome and it's very rare when people don't develop it after having been exposed.

[Willie Poole]

Back years ago they didn`t make the A`s out of the same top quality wood that they used for the F`s, also they didn`t put as much time into the fitting and carving of the tops and backs because they knew those A`s would not bring as much money as the F`s, I do believe now days with the more modern tools that a builder can carve them and fit them both equally so there shouldn`t be a whole lot of difference between them, most of us hear a difference because we want to hear it...We expect the higher priced mandolin to sound better....

The Kentucky KM-900 series A models are said to be made as close to the specs of the Griffith A5 Loar signed mandolin as can be, I have owned two and they are great sounding mandolin, having never played the original A-5 I can`t say that they do sound as good but for the money I don`t think they can be beat.....Most F model players play one because it is a status symbol for playing bluegrass, much like a Gibson banjo and a Martin guitar, and that is slowly but surely changing now that there are some builders that are making instruments that are equal or even better then those popular brands... Quite a few of the Asian mandolins will knock your socks off...BUT...it is still what suits a persons ear and fancy...

Willie

[LastMohican]

But he started on an A.

Good point.

Still...F.

[JeffD]

Funny anecdote: When I started I didn't know there were such things as F style. I was introduced to mandolin with a friend's bowl, and Dad bought me a Tenada and I played on that thing for years. It wasn't till I subscribed to Mandolin World News that I saw these scrolls and points and stuff.

My first reaction was "yuk!". Seriously, I thought they were ostentatious and kind of ugly. These "growths" extruding out of the body like something from the movie "The Thing", one growing so long as to curl around itself. A head stock that looked like a silhouette of a big nosed guy with a pointy head and a cowlick.

It wasn't till later, after exposure to Art Deco and Art Nouveau that I started to get a taste for it. And now, well, I have a good healthy dose of scroll envy.

Art education. Believe it or not coffee table books changed my life.

[lukmanohnz]

Yea. No two mandolins sound the same. The difference between two F mandolins can be much more than the difference between either F and an A.

Once again I get ready to weigh in only to find that Jeff's already said what I was gonna say....

So I'll say something else. My first quality mando was a nice (used) hand-built F from Rosta Capek. Never thought I would want for anything more, and the scroll-y stuff was important to me since I wanted to play bluegrass and 'fit in' at jams. A few years down the road I found myself not entirely satisfied by the tone of my F and simultaneously shifting my aesthetic preference to the A design. I wound up finding another mandolin (a brand new Northfield M - an A style) that cost hundreds less than the used Capek and with the tonal characteristics I found lacking in my Capek. So my own bottom line is.... find the instrument that most inspires you to play it and don't get hung up on A or F.... unless the aesthetics of the instrument are part of what inspires you, and then that will guide your choice.

[fscotte]

Everything about the size and weight difference says there should be a difference, but its hard to detect.

[Steve Lavelle]

The cost of ownership is lower for an A than an F, on average. Points and head stock scrolls are very vulnerable, and they cost more to repair. 25 years in I had mine pulled off it's stand when someone tripped on the chord. Shout out to Frank Ford for the excellent repair of 2 pieces of binding and a chipped piece of wood at the peak of the point, but I doubt there would be as much damage with an A.