Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Keys to Focus On

  1. #1

    Default Keys to Focus On

    I am working through some resources I have found on Mandozine. The related chords as well as a fretboard map is on the same page for each key. It has been a practice aspiration of mine to daily work in a different key. I have grown relatively familiar with G and would like to branch out to be more well rounded. In doing some reading, are there some keys within the bluegrass/ old time genre that are more commonly used? Obviously G and C. Just trying to set some goals for practice. Thanks for your help in advance.

  2. #2
    Registered User Drew Egerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Statesville, NC
    Posts
    1,184

    Default Re: Keys to Focus On

    G, C, D, and A will cover 90% of the songs in my local jam.
    If you get mixed up with the hard driving bluegrass stuff you'll get into more B or Bb.
    E on occasion and F once in a blue moon.

    The easy answer is ALL OF THEM, but the ones above would be the priority.
    Once you get through several, you'll start noticing relationships and common themes that will repeat. That's the beauty of the mandolin!
    Drew
    2020 Northfield 4th Gen F5
    2022 Northfield NFS-F5E
    2019 Northfield Flat Top Octave
    2021 Gold Tone Mando Cello
    https://www.instagram.com/pilotdrew85

  3. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Drew Egerton For This Useful Post:


  4. #3
    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Forest Grove, Oregon
    Posts
    2,775

    Default Re: Keys to Focus On

    D minor, (F), Am (C), Em (G) are all handy to know and also the ii minor, iii minor and vi minor of the common keys mentioned above. But folks sing in all keys, so it pays to be ready. Fortunately the flat keys (Ab, Db, Eb and Gb) are mercifully rarely called in BG jams.
    Not all the clams are at the beach

    Arrow Manouche
    Arrow Jazzbo
    Arrow G
    Clark 2 point
    Gibson F5L
    Gibson A-4
    Ratliff CountryBoy A

  5. #4

    Default Re: Keys to Focus On

    I practice mostly in E A D G C, and that would also give you the relative minors of each. (pretty much what Bill McCall was saying and I agree that Dminor-F is also very useful) because these are the main guitar keys for the people I jam with and the main blues keys at the bar jams.

    Bill: when you say ii minor, iii minor, vi minor, that would be dorian, phrygian, aeolian?

  6. The following members say thank you to bluesviolin for this post:


  7. #5
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    North CA
    Posts
    5,020

    Default Re: Keys to Focus On

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Egerton View Post
    G, C, D, and A will cover 90% of the songs in my local jam.
    If you get mixed up with the hard driving bluegrass stuff you'll get into more B or Bb.
    E on occasion and F once in a blue moon.

    The easy answer is ALL OF THEM, but the ones above would be the priority.
    Once you get through several, you'll start noticing relationships and common themes that will repeat. That's the beauty of the mandolin!
    From an overall mandolin POV, "The easy answer is ALL OF THEM" indeed.

    But the OP asks about keys for bluegrass/ old time music.

    Sure, most jams will be in G, C, D, A, and E; but many old-time fiddle tunes are often played in F or Bb, and singers in any genre can wind up singing in any key.

    As noted, a lot of BG tunes in odd keys wind up in B or something, probably due to the vocals.

    Of course, coming from a Italian-classical-jazz-Klezmer mandolin style, the real answer is:

    "All keys, major and minor (all 3 types)"

  8. #6
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,874

    Default Re: Keys to Focus On

    Quote Originally Posted by bluesviolin View Post
    Bill: when you say ii minor, iii minor, vi minor, that would be dorian, phrygian, aeolian?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_fifths
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  9. #7
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    North CA
    Posts
    5,020

    Default Re: Keys to Focus On

    Quote Originally Posted by bluesviolin View Post
    I practice mostly in E A D G C, and that would also give you the relative minors of each. (pretty much what Bill McCall was saying and I agree that Dminor-F is also very useful) because these are the main guitar keys for the people I jam with and the main blues keys at the bar jams.

    Bill: when you say ii minor, iii minor, vi minor, that would be dorian, phrygian, aeolian?
    Dorian, phrygian, etc. are modes.

    Roman numerals indicate chords in a particular key

    A ii chord (no need for the m, if it is major you use upper case II) is the chord built on the second scale degree of a major scale.

    And yes, it is the place that the related Dorian mode begins, too.

    But the chord is NOT the mode itself.

    Chords in a major scale:

    I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, vii dim

    If you use full 4 note chords, it becomes

    Imaj7, ii7, iii7, IVmaj7, V7, vi7, vii half-dim

    Scale degrees are given in Arabic numerals:

    C D E F G A B = 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

  10. The following members say thank you to DavidKOS for this post:


  11. #8
    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Forest Grove, Oregon
    Posts
    2,775

    Default Re: Keys to Focus On

    Quote Originally Posted by bluesviolin View Post
    .......Bill: when you say ii minor, iii minor, vi minor, that would be dorian, phrygian, aeolian?
    As pointed out, modes are not chords. In the minor keys noted, I was thinking of Dorian scales for BG. Other genres would use other minor scales as well.
    Not all the clams are at the beach

    Arrow Manouche
    Arrow Jazzbo
    Arrow G
    Clark 2 point
    Gibson F5L
    Gibson A-4
    Ratliff CountryBoy A

  12. #9
    two t's and one hyphen fatt-dad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia
    Posts
    7,635

    Default Re: Keys to Focus On

    . . . and then there's the capo!

    <ducking>

    f-d
    ¡papá gordo ain’t no madre flaca!

    '20 A3, '30 L-1, '97 914, 2012 Cohen A5, 2012 Muth A5, '14 OM28A

  13. #10
    I really look like that soliver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Marietta, GA
    Posts
    1,745

    Default Re: Keys to Focus On

    I find that most of the tunes at my local jam are in G, D, and A; and occasionally in C... If it were me, I'd focus on those 4. After you get the hang of those, look into E and B. I'd also recommend looking at the Four Finger Closed Position (FFcP) on the Jazz Mando website: http://jazzmando.com/ffcp_studies.shtml, this is a series of scale shapes that are moveable wherever you want on the neck in order to play in any key.

    Having played guitar in the past, it helps me a lot to recognize the chord shapes, this can also help you to know what key they are playing in. Here's a hint too: when the guitarist capos the 2nd fret they are either playing in the key of A or the key of D. So G chord shape with Capo 2 is an A Chord, C chord shape capo 2 is a D chord, D shape is an E, F shape is a G chord.
    aka: Spencer
    Silverangel Econo A #429
    Soliver #001 & #002: A double stack of Pancakes.

    Soliver Hand Crafted Mandolins and Mandolin Armrests
    Armrests Here -- Mandolins Here

    "You can never cross the ocean unless you have the courage
    to lose sight of the shore, ...and also a boat with no holes in it.” -anonymous

  14. #11
    Registered User Pete Martin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    3,244

    Default Re: Keys to Focus On

    If you just play fiddle tunes, G A C D will get you by with many intermediate level jams. If you play with better players you'd want to add E F and Bb.

    Playing with experienced Bluegrass singers, you'll want to know A Bb B C D E F G.

    If you play jazz you should know them ALL, but especially the flat keys of F Bb Eb Ab Gb.

    So I vote Drew's answer as the best
    -----------
    Pete Martin
    www.PeteMartin.info
    Jazz and Bluegrass instruction books, videos, articles, transcriptions, improvisation, ergonomics, free recordings, private lessons

    www.WoodAndStringsBand.com
    Jazz trio

    www.AppleValleyWranglers.net
    Western Swing music

  15. #12
    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    South of Cleburne, North of Hillsboro, Texas
    Posts
    5,089

    Default Re: Keys to Focus On

    I only attend a few bg jams from time to time. Recent experience at two of them was that amateur grasses aren’t comfortable in C. I can’t generalize based on two jams, but I’ve been a bit shocked by that.
    WWW.THEAMATEURMANDOLINIST.COM
    ----------------------------------
    "Life is short. Play hard." - AlanN

    ----------------------------------
    HEY! The Cafe has Social Groups, check 'em out. I'm in these groups:
    Newbies Social Group | The Song-A-Week Social
    The Woodshed Study Group | Blues Mando
    - Advice For Mandolin Beginners
    - YouTube Stuff

  16. #13
    Registered User Eric Platt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    St. Paul, MN
    Posts
    2,045

    Default Re: Keys to Focus On

    I don't play bluegrass, so can't comment on that. Most common in old time are D, G, A, C. At least here in the Midwest. B flat will show up from time to time. But still pretty rarely.

    With the key of A we often have to discuss whether it's straight A or modal. It will often influence how both the fiddle and banjo are tuned. And then it creates a whole can of worms on what chords should be played. (Been in those arguments often enough I've been known to pack up and leave rather than get into it again.)
    Brentrup Model 23, Boeh A5 #37, Gibson A Jr., Big Muddy M-11, Coombe Classical flattop, Strad-O-Lin
    https://www.facebook.com/LauluAika/
    https://www.lauluaika.com/
    https://www.facebook.com/Longtine-Am...14404553312723

  17. #14
    Registered User Simon DS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Peace and Love
    Posts
    2,416

    Default Re: Keys to Focus On

    Try to see the scale as notes with relationships to one another, each has a flavour when it’s relative to the others, and they’re all together.
    If you know G inside out to start with, you can begin the pattern on the third string as a lot of people have said to get the D major scale, just shift the whole pattern across one string, A is two shifts. C/Am is a good one too (helps guitarists), again remember it’s the G all connected together shifted up to the fifth fret.
    Then it’s the relative minors, aeolian mode, Em for example by beginning the scale on the sixth note using G pattern, it’s relative major.
    Actually I’d take a simple ionian (centred) tune that has arpeggios learned in G, and shift it all over the fretboard and remember which keys appear to be easiest, and why.
    My favourite: A#/Gm. Wow!

  18. #15

    Default Re: Keys to Focus On

    Remember that if you learn to play a closed position, you can get by in any key in a pinch.
    Object to this post? Find out how to ignore me here!

  19. #16
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Manchester - Lancashire - NW England
    Posts
    14,187

    Default Re: Keys to Focus On

    Pete Martin nailed it !. Realistically,you need to try to become a decent player in all keys. When playing with others,you never know what key a singer might decide to sing in,& you'll have to be able to play in that key. Apart from banjo with it's 'open' Bluegrass tuning G/D/G/B/D where you can use a capo to change key,the mandolin has the most logical tuning of any other instrument (inc. the Violin family),that i know of. It simply takes a bit of logical 'thought' to go along with it,& plenty of practice to be able to play in those keys. Others do it & so can you !,
    Ivan
    Weber F-5 'Fern'.
    Lebeda F-5 "Special".
    Stelling Bellflower BANJO
    Tokai - 'Tele-alike'.
    Ellis DeLuxe "A" style.

  20. #17
    Gibson F5L Gibson A5L
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,526
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Keys to Focus On

    Well if you want to play with anyone anytime then you have to practice all the keys. It is true that I have never encountered a fiddle tune written in Ad or Ed that's A flat and E flat not as and ed . However some Capo Cowboy may wish to do a rendition of Roll in My Sweet Baby's Arms in D with a capo on the first fret. This is of course where closed positions come in handy. So play when you want to, but practice those "out of position" scales and the I IV V II ii and vi that go with them and play on! R/
    I love hanging out with mandolin nerds . . . . . Thanks peeps ...

  21. #18
    Registered User Bob Visentin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Decatur, GA
    Posts
    254

    Default Re: Keys to Focus On

    "With the right key you can get into any flat"

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •