While reading yet another article on Bill Monroe's 1923 Gibson F5 that sold for over $1 million, I started thinking about what David Grisman's 1922 Gibson F5 "Crusher" would sell for, if he ever decided to sell it. Any guesses?
While reading yet another article on Bill Monroe's 1923 Gibson F5 that sold for over $1 million, I started thinking about what David Grisman's 1922 Gibson F5 "Crusher" would sell for, if he ever decided to sell it. Any guesses?
John A. Karsemeyer
$201,499.50
"I play BG so that's what I can talk intelligently about." A line I loved and pirated from Mandoplumb
Grisman ≠ Monroe as a public figure; the $1 million figure for Monroe's Loar F-5 was based on Monroe's son and heir James's asking price, which was met by "philanthropist" Bob McLean's purchase from James for the reported price. McLean donated the mandolin to the Country Music Hall of Fame -- which four years later found itself trying to raise the money to keep it, after McLean's estate went into bankruptcy, presumably defaulting on the payment to James Monroe.
We all know and admire David Grisman, but his instrument is unlikely to benefit from the value added by Bill Monroe's place in American music. Remember, Monroe's not only in the Country Music Hall of Fame, but in the Rock and Roll HOF; the Nashville Songwriters HOF, and whatever halls of fame the bluegrass organizations set up. He got a Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award, and the National Medal of the Arts. In summary, he was/is a Big Deal, and his iconic F-5's price benefits from its most famous owner's overall history.
I assume Grisman's "Crusher" is a superior mandolin; hell, it may be better than Monroe's, for all I know. But Monroe's mandolin's price is a function of Monroe's fame, not its musical quality -- at least in large part. And, as we all know, it's been gouged and whipped, smashed to fragments and rebuilt. If it had been owned by Bill Whozis, and had survived all the use and abuse, it'd probably sell for less than Grisman's. As it is, we all call it an "icon," whatever that means.
Instruments are worth what you can get someone to pay for them, and their market value, in many cases, fluctuates with the reputation of their owners. Someone was trying to get $50K for Jimmy Martin's F-4, which he owned but didn't play in performance. I have an F-5, and it's worth whatever 1950's F-5's are worth nowadays. Should I become famous -- perhaps for a headline crime spree, who knows? -- you'll have to pay more for it, when I sell it to make bail.
Allen Hopkins
Gibsn: '54 F5 3pt F2 A-N Custm K1 m'cello
Natl Triolian Dobro mando
Victoria b-back Merrill alumnm b-back
H-O mandolinetto
Stradolin Vega banjolin
Sobell'dola Washburn b-back'dola
Eastmn: 615'dola 805 m'cello
Flatiron 3K OM
I'd say the going rate for a good Loar plus another 10-15% for Dawg's provenance...strictly guessing here...
1994 Gibson F5L - Weber signed
"Mandolin brands are a guide, not gospel! I don't drink koolaid and that Emperor is naked!"
"If you wanna get soul Baby, you gots to get the scroll..."
"I would rather play music anyday for the beggar, the thief, and the fool!"
"Perfection is not attainable; but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence" Vince Lombardi
Playing Style: RockMonRoll Desperado Bluegrass Desperado YT Channel
...or Bill Monroe's toaster...or back brace.
https://www.instagram.com/apitiusmandolins/What is good Phaedrus? and what is not good? need we ask anyone to tell us these things?
Doesn`t that go against the Café`s guide lines? That's an ad isn`t it? Not that I really care...
Willie
Dawg sells instruments all the time, but there is a very long list of them that will hit the block before we ever get to Crusher. Maybe it goes to a younger player like Sierra Hull or Dominick Leslie.
Emando.com: More than you wanted to know about electric mandolins.
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Given Grisman's playing on American Beauty and Workingman's Dead, he actually is a rock star.Hmmm tough because these guys are not rock stars outside of the bluegrass world.
I believe that there is actually somebody out there, a living person, that would pay a million dollars for Crusher. Yep.
Yes Timothy, the subject of this thread is purely conjecture... Silly but safe as you say.
I think what Willie was referring to is the Sam Bush video. It is somewhat a tangent, but it is definitely an advertisement for an upcoming event. Willie's got a point.
"I play BG so that's what I can talk intelligently about." A line I loved and pirated from Mandoplumb
You? In that case, could you lend me a couple hundred grand?
Heck, I wouldn't pay a million dollars for Monroe's F-5. if you threw in Scruggs's banjo and Doc Watson's Gallagher guitar.
Museums pay big buxx for artifacts; collectors line their vaults with pedigreed objects created or owned by the famous. I wouldn't pay $6 million for a Stradivarius, even if I had the money to spare. (And I don't.)
If I own an instrument -- and I own 'way too many -- I want one that I play, not an "icon" that I'd be worried about taking out of my house -- and even worried that it was acting as burglar-bait even in my house.
Perhaps "Crusher" will end up in the New Acoustic Music Hall of Fame, assuming enough yuppies get together to build such an edifice. Otherwise, when Dawg lays it down, I hope it ends up in the hands of another superlative picker -- and that the musician in question can afford to buy it.
Allen Hopkins
Gibsn: '54 F5 3pt F2 A-N Custm K1 m'cello
Natl Triolian Dobro mando
Victoria b-back Merrill alumnm b-back
H-O mandolinetto
Stradolin Vega banjolin
Sobell'dola Washburn b-back'dola
Eastmn: 615'dola 805 m'cello
Flatiron 3K OM
Allen,
We may be cut from the same bolt! I have the musical instruments I have to play them not, to be a shrine to my purchasing power. My wife and I have silly amounts of antiques in the house, decorative and functional, she has her Eggo waffle from Limoges China and why not? The Heisy punch bowl gets used. I live in a home not, a museum. Glassware gets broken, I used to go nuts when I’d break one, now, I just tell friends when one goes, “Not a museum, lets just sweep that one up and make a fresh cocktail!”
Instruments are made to be played, not enshrined! I hope the esteemed Mr. Grisman bequeaths his collection to a school for the arts and students have the opportunity to play some of his fabulous instruments.
Timothy F. Lewis
"If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett
I'd rather have the Dawgs old historical Fern! Now that is one mighty fine mandolin.
I'm with you Allen on the whole collector thing.
Never having met David ... never having seen him play live ... but my guess would be when the time comes "Crusher" will be put in the hands of a player he believes will continue making it sound the way it ought to. And i'm not sure money would even change hands.
Ryk
mandolin ~ guitar ~ banjo
"I'm convinced that playing well is not so much a technique as it is a decision. It's a commitment to do the work, strive for concentration, get strategic about advancing by steps, and push patiently forward toward the goal." Dan Crary
This is a tough call, among my circles, a fair amount of people know who Grisman is (via the Dead and more specifically Garcia), but have no idea who Bill Monroe is. I don't see Crusher having the historic value, but maybe a hometown tech billionaire wouldn't mind picking it up.
Robert Fear
http://www.folkmusician.com
"Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don't.
" - Pete Seeger
Don't forget that Dawg is a great friend to the Cafe, and shows up with helpful and entertaining insights here from time to time. At least, keep in mind that you're talking about someone who's in the room.
I have no doubt that Crusher is one of the most valuable mandolins out there. But what's that they say about knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing?
Dawg's amassed an important collection of instruments, and I've never read, or heard (first or second or third hand) what he plans to do with them. But I don't see a lot of value in debating the price of an instrument that isn't for sale.
Obviously, folks can talk about whatever they want - and I'm not trying to shut down this or any thread.
i've always loved the sound of BM's mandolin on good recordings. But as much as i like some of DG's playing, i don't care for the sound of Crusher and have no desire to own it...even if it's valued more than my humble home. Taste is such a quirky thing, no?
I've been lucky enough to play Crusher for a few moments on a couple of occasions. It's an extraordinary F5, and I've owned and played a bunch of them. I'm not saying I would (or could) pay a million dollars for this instrument, but I'm pretty sure there's somebody out there who could (or would) given the opportunity. Hell, people spend a million dollars on a single baseball card which, to me at least, ain't no part of you-know-what.
If I had a million bucks to spend on a mandolin and Grisman was willing to sell Crusher for that price I’d buy it. The only Loar I’ve played is Reischman’s. I’d pay a million for that one too. Either one of them would be entirely wasted in my hands, so I would take my million dollar investment and hand it over to Sierra Hull or Joe K. Walsh and expect a high rate of return on my investment.
"Well, I don't know much about bands but I do know you can't make a living selling big trombones, no sir. Mandolin picks, perhaps..."
Since we're talking about the value of a mandolin belonging to a well known & respected musician,what about the value of the Loar belonging to John Reischman ?. It's widely regarded as the best of them. ( Oops !. I just read lukmanohnz post above - it seems he has similar ideas to my own re.JR's Loar.)
Frankly - i don't think we should be discussing this subject. It seems a tad intrusive to be talking about the value of somebody else's property - purely my opinion,
Ivan
Weber F-5 'Fern'.
Lebeda F-5 "Special".
Stelling Bellflower BANJO
Tokai - 'Tele-alike'.
Ellis DeLuxe "A" style.
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