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Thread: Cello conversion contender?

  1. #1
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    Default Cello conversion contender?

    Hey folks,

    I've been searching Ebay and beyond for an archtop guitar to convert to mandocello. I have narrowed my search to various Harmony styles. The archtones (1213-15) are readily available but birch bodied and I'd rather hold out for some solid spruce and maple construction. There are some Monterey's and Patricians with spruce tops but they have been out of my price range (~$250 shipped).

    Many have neck issues which led me to the idea of finding one with a pulled neck heel, which is kind of a blessing since they are cheaper and I'd be removing the neck anyway to shave it down to a 1.5" nut width. If I pulled the neck, I was then considering maybe pulling the whole top, which got me thinking about finding a birch body archtop with a bad neck joint and possibly carving a spruce top. So many ideas, bear with me here.

    I stumbled upon this potential gem, an H52 solid spruce top/maple side and back Harmony archtop with an oval cutout for a Gibson style P90 humbucker pickup.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Vi...gAAOSwgQVaw6~b

    So here's the problem... There are two side cracks (likely along the lining which is a pain) and a hair line back crack. They have all been poorly glued, and there is the issue of assembling and wiring a humbucker pickup to bring it back to electric acoustic status. At that point it would be a franken-cello of sorts.

    If you're into this sort of guitar alchemy please keep reading, if not you can hit your back button to the upper left.

    I priced a pickup and all parts to re-electrify this body at around $125.
    I could source spruce wood to carve a new top for about the same price (~16" lower bout/20" body length). I have never carved a top, but am really interested in taking my self taught luthiery to the next level and keen to give it a shot. I don't have a gouge, finger plane or scraper, but I'd consider them a long term sunken cost. Worst case, I mess it up and put the original top back on and make it electric. Education is not free

    SO,
    1. Would you consider this too much of a repair for the money?
    2. Would you electrify or carve a spruce top?
    3. Does anyone have additional advice on sourcing busted neck archtops for conversions?
    4. Go with birch and just make it nice?

    Thanks,

    Greg

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Cello conversion contender?

    Still just me in here huh... I bought it! Mods I suppose you can close this thread, I’ll start a proper build thread when the time comes.

  4. #3
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    Default Re: Cello conversion contender?

    No sense in closing it. We are looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
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    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
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  6. #4
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    Default Re: Cello conversion contender?

    It hardly seems worth the trouble to carve a solid top and put it on a poorly repaired body that probably has heat-arched, possibly laminated back, especially since you're interested in learning the craft. You might be able to make a better instrument yourself from scratch. Or you can up your budget and convert an archtop that's in better shape. Or find one with a good body and a broken neck, and re-neck it.

    Don't under-rate birch as a tonewood. The bulk of Gibson teardrop oval hole models, F-2's, and the early L-5's and K-5's were made of birch. Or if you're set on maple and want to keep your costs down, you can probably search out a good board without heavy figure from a hardwood supplier, rather than pay big bucks from a luthiers' supply house. Just make sure it's good and dry, and somewhat quarter sawn.

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    Default Re: Cello conversion contender?

    I’m in agreement with that sentiment and pretty sure these are solid woods, definitely heat arched though. Thanks for the wood advice. I will likely put a pickup back in and call it a day after repairs and the neck work. This is for my buddie’s 40th bday in January who has been cello curious for ages, though I don’t think he’d actually get a full blown “real” one. He plays electric bass so this is a reasonable direction. I on the other hand would love an octave, so that might be the project after this where I carve some wood with no time constraints. Stay tuned!! I should have it by next week.

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  10. #6

    Default Re: Cello conversion contender?

    Those old arch tops, while they will never be fine instruments, can have their own charm. I fixed one up just to practice fretwork and binding. The cheaper ones had not only painted binding, but painted flame. The birch it is made from is very plain. It is a decent sounding guitar, and I expect would make a great mandolin conversion.
    Silverangel A
    Arches F style kit
    1913 Gibson A-1

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    Default Re: Cello conversion contender?

    Does anyone have any sound geek opinions on putting a 6 string humbucker under a set of 8 mandocello strings? I suppose a rail pickup made for bass would serve me better. Of course those are more expensive, but I’m about $125 ahead of my budget already so we have some wiggle room.

    Anyone into the I’m With Her album? The cover of Ryland/Under the Apple tree? I’m imagining this electromandocello playing that and getting psyched!!!

  13. #8

    Default Re: Cello conversion contender?

    Any rail pickup will work, doesn't need to be for a bass. Also check out Alumitones.

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    Default Re: Cello conversion contender?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Jacobson View Post
    Any rail pickup will work, doesn't need to be for a bass. Also check out Alumitones.
    Agree, there are many rail pickups for guitar and any will work.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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    Default Re: Cello conversion contender?

    Awesome, thanks guys!

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    Default Re: Cello conversion contender?

    If you have a pickup you want to use and the pole pieces are flat on top get a piece of metal that will go across the pole pieces and let it magnetically attach. You now have a rail pickup.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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    Default Re: Cello conversion contender?

    I really like the look of these Alumitones, although some reviews state the low end isn’t quite there. Seymour Duncan has some cool stuff too, their site displays the tone profile of each pup. This is fun research!!
    The body of Frankenmando arrives on Friday.

    Next conversation is deciding a scale length and nut width. 25.5” and 1.5”??

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    Default Re: Cello conversion contender?

    I took some measurements, the nut is 1.75" and the neck is 2.25" at the 12th fret so I'll be taking that down by 1/8th on each side.
    16" lower bout, 41" total length, 2.75" rim depth.

    The more I read I am considering going 27" for the scale length. I don't think this will be a chord-style player, more of a bass line kind of guitar so the argument of first position chords being hard to play with that scale length is not relevant. Unless anyone has an opinion otherwise?

    The top is definitely solid spruce but I'm not sure about the back and sides, we'll see when I open it up. I don't see a seam down the back where it would have been bookmatched and I highly doubt this is a solid maple back...

    I'll take some pics when its at least cleaned up, then I'll start making my mess!!

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    Default Re: Cello conversion contender?

    Ok so it turns out that I would need a longer neck to accommodate a 27” scale length because pulling the bridge back would land it right on a pickup tone/volume knob. So now I’m back to looking at this original 25” scale length on the board. My next step down from 27 was 25.5, but seriously are we splitting hairs if I just keep the 25” scale length? If we’re talking a whole new fretboard for a half inch I don’t think I’ll take this one off. It would have the guitar placement markers which could be a bit confusing right?

    I’d still pull the frets, plane the board and narrow the neck down a bit. My main question at this point is if I plane the fingerboard down to remove some ridges in the wood will I need to deepen the fret slots after to set them in?

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    Default Re: Cello conversion contender?

    You can always use a feeler gauge to measure but probably.

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  24. #16
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    Default Re: Cello conversion contender?

    Pics, as promised. Not much more to see than the eBay pics but I did take some shots at the bracing. There’s also quite a deal of supporting wood for the electronics, I’d like to pare that all down and re-brace it right.
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    Apologies for the sideways pics, I can never seem to post them right.

    The guitar is sitting in the case with a damp paper towel in an open ziploc bag, just trying to hydrate the wood before I get to fixing the bad crack fixes.

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    Default Re: Cello conversion contender?

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    Getting down to the nitty gritty. I took the back off last night and found that there’s a crack through the neck block on both sides. I’m a little weary now of pulling the neck off by itself. Would pulling the neck and block off together be a better move? If that’s at all even possible. I’m really hoping the dovetail is still in one piece?!??
    I still need to get the fretboard off, maybe tonight then I’ll be able to see into the joint better.

    Back crack repair should be easy, cleats and clamps.
    Side crack repair I need to pull some kerfing to get an even gluing surface for my veneer backer.

    Any advice here would be greatly appreciated. Stay tuned!!

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    Default Re: Cello conversion contender?

    Once you pop, you can’t stop!! Check out that “fit” in the joint. You could lose a small child in there...
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    Almost ready to get my repairs going. I have decided to go with a new fretboard with as much scale length I can afford until the bridge runs into the electronics. Likely 25.5”.

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    Default Re: Cello conversion contender?

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    There was definitely a prior attempt at a neck reset, the riser underneath the fretboard was cut at the body and TONS of glue was pumped in the extra space in the joint. Yuck.
    It all came out nicely, the spruce has separated from the neck block too so we’ll be in good shape once the doctor gets this patient off the operating table.

    Demo day is over, now time for the rehab!!

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    Default Re: Cello conversion contender?

    Not much to report here but a tube of wood goodies arrived from Stewmac this week! Some bracing wood, kerfed lining and ebony binding which I am equally psyched as afraid of. I think I’m going to go with a violin finish a la the Hofner Chancellor look. I’m smitten. Gold hardware, gold Alumitone humbucker pickup. Yabba dabba doo!

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  30. #21
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    Default Re: Cello conversion contender?

    Birthday night fun after the wife went to bed. Shaping back repair cleats, a beer and some Star Wars: Last Jedi.
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    I made these out of paint stirrer sticks. Hopefully they hold!!

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    Default Re: Cello conversion contender?

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    I got some decent work done today, rainy Sunday = productivity!!

    Assisted by my little helper I removed the old lining along the length of the body cracks, cleaned the old glue out and used some basswood veneer (thanks hobby store) to support. Then I added new lining. I’m very happy with one side crack fix, not so much the other but now there is supporting wood behind the crack, I can go ahead and sand it out and fill it. It won’t be gorgeous, but we’ll see what happens.
    I also reglued the neck joint to the soundboard and firmed up the crack in there. Another “I hope it holds” moment. I slipped the neck back in to check alignment and there’s enough room to shim up minor adjustments

    So the last bit before closing the body back up and doing exterior work. There are 3 layers of wood surrounding the sound hole. It’s pribably a total of 1/4” or so. I gather this was for soundboard deadening(imagine that) to reduce feedback, or something like that. My plan is to remove that wood and add some bracing. Any opinions as to whether I should bother with this step? I’d basically go with a pair of parallel braces perpendicular to the existing ones, on either side of the sound hole, then a vertical pair to complete a box shape.

    Any advice would be very much appreciated!! Can’t wait to close this up and play with the neck.

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