Should one be swayed by nut width??

[Jerry LM]

Looking to upgrade to a good long time, mandolin and notice most are 1 1/8" so I assume this is the standard? I don't know if this should be a determining factor in my purchase. The one I have now is 1/8" but I see some at 1 3/16" and wonder would this make it a bit easier to play as far as chords? Make it easier to eliminate dead strings? I realize most of that is due to beginner status but?
Is it wise to invest in American made when you get up to the 2k plus range in cost? or does it make any difference as far as resale down the road if I fail in this endeavor. It seems there is a wide gap from the 2500 or so to the next step which seems up in the 4k plus in cost. I plan on staying under 3k max.
I know these are most likely old questions and mostly opinion but so far I have gotten really good advice and info on this forum so thought I'd throw it out there....

[pops1]

I have mandolins with both nut widths, I don't notice a difference. Where I do notice a difference is depth of the neck. Do you like slim, thick, C shape, V shape. These would be more considerations for me. I also like to support small builders, there are small builders that are not in the US, but they are very fine craftsman and I wouldn't rule them out because of their location. You can get very nice mandolins under 3K, especially if you like A models.

[MikeZito]

Personally - I have never noticed any real difference in neck width - what really make a difference in playability to me is neck shape and thickness; (Note that a 'thick' does not mean 'wide' - the girth is vertical from the fretboard-down, and not horizontal from side-to-side). As you might expect, the 'best' neck width, shape and thickness is going to depend on each individual player . . . and the only real way to gauge what works best for you is try play as many mandolins as possible until you find the proper fit for your hands; which is a difficult circumstance for those of us who live in mandolin-scarce parts of the country.

As far as investment and resale goes - yes, American made instruments are your best bet, and you should be able to find some very nice stuff in the 2-3K range; (the Weber Gallatin series comes immediately to mind - and I am sure that others will chime in with other suggestions).

Good luck and keep us posted.

[jab]

I have larger hands, not huge, but ones that fit a 6' 2" guy. I moved from a 1/16 Kentucky KM-1000 (I think they now make them 1/8) to a Collings 3/16. I notice a difference playing the 3/16 mostly in that I can get two fingers in the same fret and not get dead strings. Was almost impossible for me to do on the 1/16, and as you can imagine the 1/8 was somewhere in the middle, tight but would someone notice I had a partial dead string? Probably not. So, I'm a 3/16 guy and happy with the purchase. Difference b/w the 1/8 and 3/16 Collings I tried was subtle, but enough for me to take the plunge to 3/16. If you don't find yourself playing those types of open chords, then maybe not worth the extra width. I find overall I have to play more precise with the 3/16 because things don't jumble together quite as much and on solos I touch the other strings less. Smaller width "overall" a fraction easier to play, especially chop chords, but I did find more dead string issues. My dealer was right though, he said whatever you take home you're going to get used to and within a day and I was thrilled with the 3/16.

[Bertram Henze]

I am partial to wider nuts, so I'll say get one. Once you get used to it, you never want to go back.

[ccravens]

Nut width does matter to me. I hate dead strings, and I have fairly large hands and fingers, so I only ever buy 1 3/16 mandos.

As to your second question, for under 3K, you open yourself up to a number of individual luthiers' products (whether American or European, or other) as opposed to larger factory-made models (I prefer to phrase it like that as opposed to American made vs. foreign made). Most should hold resale well, admitting that you don't buy with that being the primary factor. At least I hope not..

Good luck, you'll be getting a flood of advice here shortly!

[sblock]

Like pops1, I feel that neck profile is far more important to me than minor changes in the nut width (1-1/18" to 1-3/16"). But there are some MC members, mostly those who are coming to mandolin from guitar (which has a wide fingerboard), and also a smaller number with comparatively fat fingertips, who strongly prefer a wider nut. Those who come from the violin, on the other hand, or those with slender fingers, are used to narrower nuts. Plus, a narrower nut makes it possible to more easily fret two adjacent strings with one fingertip (think Em positions; useful in Irish stuff). Those who start out on the mandolin seem to be comfortable with whatever nut width! This is a personal decision, and you need to make it for yourself by trying examples.

In the mid range of instruments (under 3K), I see no valid reason to try to restrict yourself to American-made instruments, particularly when some of the best options out there may be foreign-made. There are many threads on this topic, with divergent opinions, which you would do well to look up. If you're willing to get an A model, not an F, and also to buy USED, not new, then you'll have some pretty darn great options to consider from well-reputed custom luthiers (Mowry, Pomeroy, Pava, many more) as well as small factories (Weber, Collings, Flatiron, Northfield). And, of course, there are Kentucky, Eastman, etc. And there's always Gibson, esp. older models (also recent F9s).

[Br1ck]

I spent quite a while at Gryphon yesterday playing six or seven mandolins. I have no idea if all or none had wider nuts. I don't know if any had flat fretboards either. Some necks were thicker, some thinner,band I liked them all. I didn't pay any attention to the fret size either. My point is if one mandolin sounds tHe best, I could adapt to any neck.

They had a very nice Weber with abalone inlay that had a beefy neck and a lovely warm tone, very much like my Silverangel. They had a nice Lebeda (Chech) with flamy maple and a nice bright tone. But then I keep coming back to the Northfield F5s. Not so flamy wood and no glossy finish, but the tone and playability are insane for the price.

The above three come from three different countries. It is not the country of origin, but the mandolin you are buying. Yes, some are going to want USA built instruments, for many good reasons. A master series Kentucky will hold it's relative value because they are very nice mandolins, as will the Northfields.

Now as to resale, with so many folks forced to buy sight unseen, the safer choices are going to be brands more people are likely to have played, or get talked up in forums. So if that is what is important to you, buy a Collngs MT used. You will like it. Weather you would like one better than something else you'll only know buy playing a bunch, preferably all at the same time.

I have found that you can get a very nice A style mandolin for $1200-1500 used. Yes you can pay two or three hundred more and more choices become available, but $1200 will do it. For an F you are talking more like $2300 up. Gong to this quality level get you a very nice upgrade over the master Kentuckys, and those are very good.

I'm talking very plain instruments. Fancy gets expensive fast. If I had three grand in my pocket, I'd either buy a new or used Northfield

[HonketyHank]

Well, I have a few mandolins, both wide neck and skinny neck. I am not a great mandolin player but I have some nice mandolins, a couple valued in your range (2-3k in the current used mandolin market). (NFI - none of my babies are for sale.) My thoughts:

I have worked for 2 years trying to do chop chords 'easily'. No such luck. But I can reach them with a skinny neck. Can't quite reach them with a wide neck. Maybe I am just too old and creaky.

I don't feel much difference in routine melody and lead fingering, at least not in the open position where I spend most of my time. In closed positions I do find it difficult but not impossible to use my pinkie over on the G string on the wide neck. It takes a bit more practice and warmup but it is doable. I don't perceive much, if any, difference in sharper cleaner noting with the wide neck vs skinny, except for that pinkie on the G string.

As I face the reality that I will never be rivaling the pros' abilities on the mandolin, it is progressively easier to accept my limitations and go for what is fun to play as opposed to what I hope to grow into. At my skill level, that makes the sound of the mandolin much more important (to me) than an eighth of an inch of nut width. But that 1/8" could well be important to you. Try before you buy.

There are some mighty fine sounding USA-made mandolins in the used market in your price range. To be fair, the same could be said of non-USA-made mandolins, but so far my hearing aid assisted ears are liking the USA ones I have played and I do see a lot more of the domestics in that range than imports.

[EdHanrahan]

Also of consequence is any arch to the fretboard. Arching causes the outside strings to, let's say, "drop away" from the inner ones, leaving height for your fingers to clear the outer ones. Thus, arching makes a fretboard effectively wider than it might measure.

Remember that your hands are not anybody else's hands, and what others find comfortable may or may not apply to you. Like gloves, ya gotta feel 'em yourself.

And also: Be aware that some folks decide that "x" specification is to their liking, and then convert that preference to a requirement, while others of us find an array of shapes work well and are comfortable. Personally, I like the feel of an arched fretboard, but don't own one or have any urge to do so.

[dang]

I am partial to wider nuts, so I'll say get one. Once you get used to it, you never want to go back.

I agree with this. I have 2 with 1 3/16 and even one with 1 1/4 that I really like. I sold a Gibson A9 I was in love with but it had a horribly small 1 inch neck I could never get used to. To each their own, but that’s why you have to try them all to see what you like.

[fatt-dad]

I'm okay from 1-1/8 through 1-1/4". I'm not okay with the 1" and the 1-1/16" nut width; however.

f-d

[Al Trujillo]

Is it wise to invest in American made when you get up to the 2k plus range in cost? or does it make any difference as far as resale down the road if I fail in this endeavor. It seems there is a wide gap from the 2500 or so to the next step which seems up in the 4k plus in cost. I plan on staying under 3k max.

My first, and so far my only mandolin, is a Weber Gallatin-A that I bought new for $1,699 (ask dealers and they'll deal). I'd like to upgrade someday but this little thing plays so well that I really don't know what an upgrade (up to $3,500) will do for me. Regarding a sale down the road I'm not sure you'll ever make money, and you may be lucky enough to break even. Most likely you'll end up with a bit less than you bought it for. NFI...but do some price shopping on Reverb/Folk/mandolins and/or here on the Classifieds just to get an idea of what your money will buy. When I bought my first, good members here told me to buy one 'that inspires' you to play it. I got that mandolin on my first try. You're wise to ask here.

[Jerry LM]

WOW!!!! now I'm really confused,, just kidding, I really appreciate all the time and effort to reply to my question, I am a guitar player now for 40yrs and I play fiddle tune leads and do vocals, so the mandolin is something I listen to a lot, but have never played until the past few weeks, I have the Loar 500vs model. I believe it is a 1 1/8" nut width. It seems, I have just naturally taken to the instrument, now by that I mean, I have learned the major scales in multiple octaves, and have been practicing the full closed chords up the neck, and working on melodies for tunes like Whiskey B4Breakfast etc. The picking and strumming seem easy to me as I play alternate pick on the guitar and the melodies are very familiar. I can see playing this instrument in the trio before to long. But at a beginner level obviously. I can only devote a couple of hours a day because my guitar practice uses much of the day.
My guitar is one I have settled on a custom Martin OOO and over the years I have owned a bunch, don't want to go down the constant trade route with the mandolin. I am going for one solid and hopefully quality instrument and stick with it. I am very much a fan of buying used, the only caveat being setup, if it isn't right I have no place near to do the work. I feel the one real advantage to new is a dealer who can do the setup before I buy it.
However I am still browsing the classifieds.
I think the consensus here is the nut width is something that at 1 1/8" or 1 3/16" is not a deal breaker, I seem to be ok with the 1 1/8" I have now. Definitely takes some getting used to holding the chords as compared to guitar. The neck I have now is a V shape and I think I would prefer less of a pronounced V and a bit more round. My guitar is the performance neck and for years I played a full V, now I have come to love the thinner neck.
I am not prejudiced against any country of origin but in looking at close up photos, to my eye, the mandolins made here seem to overall have better looking bindings and inlay, and wood matches and finish. Collings, Phoenix, Weber, Northfield, Flatiron, etc. But this is thru the eyes of a guitar player so new stuff to me.
I have already noticed I do not like the case mine came with, fits ok but no room for the strap, or anything else, so I would go with one of the flat cases that have at least some storage.
I restrung my Loar with light gauge strings, NanoWebs and immediately ( to me) it sounded. better, more clear and sustain and a little louder, and is absolutely easier to play. I don't like heavy strings on guitar either so 12 to 54 is just right for me. I play many hours a day and heavy strings really stress my joints.
I also have some DD strings nickel to try and some regular sets as well, but for now learning I like the lights. I have noticed they stay in tune very well, the strings that came on it were constantly flat when I took it out to play
Didn't mean to get long winded here but I do appreciate the info from everyone, a new venture here and I have much to learn for sure!
One thing I do know, coming from BG background, I like the F style scroll for sure, I know the A style can offer more for less money in some cases but I love the F so that's really the only style I am looking at right now. One downside to where I live on the Oregon coast is there are NO music stores at all and the few I know of carry very little and not many mandolins other than the real low end stuff. Portland is a three hour drive so I may go there to look but like to scout on the IN first rather than burn up a ton of gas. Thanks again everyone, I read the posts with great interest and take it all in. Jerry
Jerry

[JeffD]

I don't know if this should be a determining factor in my purchase. The one I have now is 1/8" but I see some at 1 3/16" and wonder would this make it a bit easier to play as far as chords? Make it easier to eliminate dead strings? I realize most of that is due to beginner status but?

It is very individual. I would suggest trying a few mandolins of different neck widths and seeing if it makes that much difference. I suspect that folks who came to mandolin from guitar might favor a wider neck width. I came from woodwinds so it makes no difference to me.

Is it wise to invest in American made when you get up to the 2k plus range in cost? or does it make any difference as far as resale down the road if I fail in this endeavor. ..

My own opinion is that it is never wise to invest in a mandolin. As an investment there are way to many variables outside of our control. The main thing for me, though, is that I want to be able to play the potatoes out of my mandolin, and not baby it due to concern if I were to sell it in the future.

I buy it because I want it, and I intend to love it for ever. Of course things change, and scratchy times may return where I have to take drastic measures, but in general I pay no attention to what the future value might be.

[EdHanrahan]

Didn't mean to get long winded

Yeah, that never happens around here ...

... I feel the one real advantage to new is a dealer who can do the setup before I buy it.

Not necessarily, as different folks have different requirements, and used from an experienced player is likely to be far better set up than straight-from-the-factory. For new, I'd stick to the primary Café sponsors for such work; they know what players need. From personal experience -only by phone and/or e-mail, no big-$ purchases- I'd say that Elderly and The Mandolin Store are excellent, but there are others.

Do keep in mind that a truly noticeable upgrade usually means going 300% to 400% of your current price point, not the 40% to 60% that some folks seem to aim for - that's just churning. I'd stick with your current for the intermediate term. You'll eventually find one that speaks to you, sings to you, screams "TAKE ME HOME!", and then you won't care what it costs!

[fatt-dad]

You want an f-model. You have a budget. Maybe a Weber Festival F (used?). I think a used base-model Collings would cost more than $2K?

New? Likely an f-model Eastman or Kentucky? i know a fellow that really has a great f-model Eastman. It's top-of-their line though.

My collection is all a-models, so that's that. On impulse, I'd just say, go buy a Collings and get back to playing! It takes a lot of time to search for, "The perfect mandolin." It's all what you get used to and to some extent changes as you improve. Doesn't sound like it'll take you long; however.

f-d

[Jill McAuley]

If the OP is looking for an American made F, then a used Weber Bitterroot probably fits the bill and would fall into your price range. Personally I wouldn't discount something like a used Northfield F though as well. As regards nut width, I'm a player who does notice the difference and definitely the 1 1/8th nut width is my preference. I have and play a Collings MTO with a wider nut width, but prefer the 1 1/8th width as it feels more comfortable to me.

[Jim Garber]

Looking to upgrade to a good long time, mandolin and notice most are 1 1/8" so I assume this is the standard? I don't know if this should be a determining factor in my purchase.

As far as nut width, as you can see with the replies to your question, it is really a matter of personal preference. If possible, try out as many mandolins with different width nuts (and neck orofiles) as you can and see what it does to your playing.

I am the opposite of many of the posters here. I am fine with fairly narrow widths but generally prefer the standard 1-1/8". I care much less for the profile (depth) though I lean to chunkier rather than super shallow. I have a National RM-1 which, for some reason, comes standard wth a 1-1/4" neck and it takes me some time to get used to that width. But that is me. Not you.

[Willem]

Hey Jerry, I am just over the hill from you in Eugene. Not sure if you have checked out the music stores here in town, but there are a couple good ones. McKenzie River Music carries a lot of decent instruments and are a Collings dealer. They also buy and trade. Eugene Buy Sell and Trade is also good and just a couple blocks away. They are dealers of some lower end new mandolins than the other, but have a steady flow of used instruments (mandos and tons of other cool stuff) coming in and out. Its not too bad a drive and both places are good about letting you try stuff out; particularly Buy, Sell, Trade.
P.s.- Did we meet at the Travelin McCoury's show last month?

[surfguy13]

I'm a guitarist/bass player first and although I have played mandolin for many years it's not my 'first' instrument. As such my preference has always been for a wide nut and if possible a fingerboard with an arch rather than completely flat.
My luthier (and friend) who has been making guitars and mandolins since the 60s will make a mandolin to your preferred specification and as Richard is also a guitarist he often produces mandolins with up to a 1.33" nut (or 34mm). I know it sounds stupidly wide but it does make fingering SO much easier and I find I play much faster with a wider nut. However, I am unsure if a wider fingerboard/nut changes the tone of the instrument and if so this option would clearly not suit everybody.

[Jerry LM]

Hey Jerry, I am just over the hill from you in Eugene. Not sure if you have checked out the music stores here in town, but there are a couple good ones. McKenzie River Music carries a lot of decent instruments and are a Collings dealer. They also buy and trade. Eugene Buy Sell and Trade is also good and just a couple blocks away. They are dealers of some lower end new mandolins than the other, but have a steady flow of used instruments (mandos and tons of other cool stuff) coming in and out. Its not too bad a drive and both places are good about letting you try stuff out; particularly Buy, Sell, Trade.
P.s.- Did we meet at the Travelin McCoury's show last month?

Hey there Willem, not me, the last time out was to. Portland to see my friend Eric Skye at a house concert, good to hear from you, I am just getting my feet wet with Mandolin main instrument is acoustic guitar. Very familiar with McKenzie River have purchased 10 guitars from them in the last 15 yrs.
I have spent way to many hours, (ask my wife) looking at mandolins and reviews sound clips etc. in the last month trying to get a feel for what I like and so on. The mandolin I have now is fine and good enough for learning the basics and most likely good enough period but just like guitars I am a one woman man and want one that's forever and inspires me to play. Dazzles me when I open the case. I am in no rush as my ability is very limited now however look to improve.
So far my research has brought me to the one I feel fits what I am looking for as far as tone, using my recording equipment and getting the best reproduction possible off the internet and cd's, and it is the Northfield.
I Really love the M model,but it's a A style, like all the F models so for now that's the direction I'm concentrating on. I know many of the others are great as well but for some reason the Northfields attract me in many ways. They are available with the wide nut as well but sticking with the 1/8 for now and hope to find one to try somewhere with the 3/16. Jerry

[bobby bill]

I am fine with fairly narrow widths

Well, sure - how else would you play that chord in your avatar?

[Willem]

Hey Jerry, I am pretty sure I figured out how to respond to your message.

[onassis]

Northfields will pop up in the classifieds in the sub 3k range, often <2500. Even new, list price for an F5S is $3199. Compared to everything else I've played in that price range, they're an absolute steal. Fit, finish, set up and most of all sound is extraordinary.