Should one be swayed by nut width??

[Bill Kammerzell]

I like 1 1/8" to 1 3/16". Of those two I prefer the 1 3/16".

[Traveling Tracks]

Hey Jerry,
The main thing is to enjoy this phase of the journey...seems like you're geographically in a location that doesn't allow you to test drive a lot of instruments in person...but of course you can browse endlessly online. Everyone has provided you good advice thus far and I'll just add to that by suggesting you try to give the "A" style a chance. You will definitely get more for your money. For years my main mandolin was a Weber Bitterroot F style and I loved it. Then I upgraded to a Collings MT2V which is absolutely amazing. It's their upper level "A" style with the varnish finish and the tone is unbelievable. Since you're willing to spend up to like 2 or 3k I think you said you really do have a lot of choices. I would highly recommend a Collings MT2 which you can find used on here for a good price. Or if you really are set on an "F" style then Weber has many options to choose from....again used would be my suggestion. Also, another builder you may not have heard of yet but who seems to be doing well is Max Girouard....really nice instruments and again his "A" style's can be picked up at a very reasonable price. If you want something to chase....here it is.....a used Collings MF. If you can manage to find an inexpensive used one on here....I'd go that route. Oh, and to echo the above post, yes Northfield would be another good choice. Enjoy the search!

[CES]

I used to feel like nut width didn’t really matter to me until I bought my RM-1. As Jim noted, that takes some getting used to, but after I play it a while it’s hard to go back, especially to the Eastman, which is slightly less than 1 1/8. My next one will likely be 1 3/16...

[Jeff Hildreth]

1 3/16" is MAS ( Minimum Acceptable Standard) for me.

I prefer 1 1/4". 1 1/8" is a problem.
1 1/16" or less is unplayable, such as found on EASTMAN mandolins.

As one poster stated.. once you have tried a wider nut it is difficult to go back.

I discovered this about 55 years ago when I bought one of my first Gibsons, which was near 1 1/4" and bought another that was nearer 1 1/8 " . Ridiculously narrow, offed it as I have done with many very fine mandolins that also suffered from NNS (Narrow Nut Syndrome). I do not compromise.

There is a reason why some players prefer wider nuts, playablity.

I do not suggest that everyone buy wider nutted instruments, but until you try one, you will not know for yourself which you prefer.

[Phil Goodson]

Seems the longer I've played, the more I appreciate a narrow neck & nut. I think I might be getting lazy.

[itstooloudMike]

I am also primarily a guitar player (50 years), who has become addicted to mandolin over the past 10 years. I've had several mandolins, and played many others. I could never get used to the typical Gibson F-5 type neck (narrow, flat fingerboard, deep V-shape). I can not play cleanly with this configuration, and my left hand cramps. I let a beautiful A5L go because of the neck shape. I also had a nice Eastman 815 that didn't work, because it had a neck very similar to a Gibson. Then I got a Weber Bitteroot, and that made a huge difference. The larger frets, radius fret-board, and rounded shape were much more comfortable for me, and allowed me to play with greater accuracy. I have actually had two Bitteroots. The first was an F-style, with a mahogany back. It was a great playing instrument, but I was not a fan of the tone from the mahogany back. Later, I found an A-style Bitteroot with a maple back. I still have this one, and will never let it go. It sounds fantastic. I had Steve Smith at Cumberland Acoustics install one of his bridges and do a complete setup on the Bitteroot. It now plays ridiculously well. I would strongly recommend a used Weber to any guitar playing mandolin convert.

My other mandolin is an F-style Summit. It has a neck very much like the Weber, and does sound a little more "bluegrass". It is very loud, and has a woody deep bark. It's also a very beautiful understated mandolin, which I like. It plays very well, but not quite as well as my Weber. You get a lot of mandolin for your money with a used Summit, and they rival Gibson for bluegrass tone. But they aren't that easy to find. If I were looking again, I would definitely be watching for nice used Webers. They are built extremely well, sound really good, and play as easy as anything out there. Also note that even a good mandolin can benefit from a great setup by someone who honestly knows what they are doing. Steve Smith is fantastic.

[DavidKOS]

I am partial to wider nuts, so I'll say get one. Once you get used to it, you never want to go back.

I had my new flatback built with a special wide nut - it feels great and chord playing is so easy!

[Jerry LM]

Thanks Mitch, everything I have found to read, and every artist I have seen reviewing them seems to feel the same way. I realize some artists are biased or paid but in general I have not found a negative remark.
My way is not for everyone but I would rather invest once in a premium instrument that will last a lifetime than try dozen back and forth, selling etc. So I have decided to go with the Northfields, simply going to wait a couple of months to. build up my funds and thinking the BigMon. Just love the way their mandolins look, and Mike Marshall is one of their spokesman and I have seen him in person and take lessons on line from him so that is also a factor that swung me over. I know from years of guitar purchases I have always gotten back a good portion of my purchase price and in a few instances more by buying top end. I don't think however this one will ever be sold.
Takes me a bit longer sometimes to buy as I only deal in cash, don't like plastic so I can wait a bit. Need to find one as well, and get the best setup possible so will take my time.

[Jeff Hildreth]

Another note..

Rory Dowling of Taran Guitars makes his mandolins with a 33 mm nut ( a scrid under 1 5/16" ).. as played by Kevin McLeod.

Review... about 2/3rds the way in on the rosewood body review the nut width is discussed.

https://vimeo.com/171202098

[pops1]

My '22 A2 is 1 1/4", I used to love it, but now prefer a narrower and shallower neck. Used to be the only thing I played. I can still play it, just don't do it much these days. Still the best sounding mandolin I have tho.

[dan in va]

Absolutely. My left hand insists on 1 1/16" now with pretty much V in the shape.

[DHopkins]

Those that say the width doesn't matter don't have big hands. Trust me. Size matters, at least for some of us. Both of my Breedloves have 1 3/16" nuts. It makes a difference to me, especially when compared to my F-4 Gibson and I do play the Gibson every once in a while just because I can. If I start feeling twinges of MAS and start perusing the classifieds, I almost automatically skip over any instrument that doesn't have a wide neck.

I won't go back.

[foldedpath]

Like pops1, I feel that neck profile is far more important to me than minor changes in the nut width (1-1/18" to 1-3/16"). But there are some MC members, mostly those who are coming to mandolin from guitar (which has a wide fingerboard), and also a smaller number with comparatively fat fingertips, who strongly prefer a wider nut. Those who come from the violin, on the other hand, or those with slender fingers, are used to narrower nuts. Plus, a narrower nut makes it possible to more easily fret two adjacent strings with one fingertip (think Em positions; useful in Irish stuff).

I wanted to cherry-pick this quote because it describes my preference for closely-spaced string courses for playing Irish and Scottish traditional music. Also useful in OldTime, or any genre where you're playing "fiddle tunes."

On a mandolin with traditional Gibson spacing, I can use my index fingertip to hold down the G and D courses together for a 2200 "A modal" chord (dyad) in first position, leaving other fingers free to fret melody notes.

Shift it over to X220, and it's a "E modal" that does the same thing with a single index fingertip holding down all four strings. There are other opportunities up and down the neck to fret two courses with a single fingertip; so your other fingers can do their thing on top of that dyad.

This is something that isn't obvious to guitar players who transition to mandolin, where the immediate instinct is to go for a wider neck. I'm a 30+ year guitar player too before discovering mandolin, and it took me a while to realize how this works.

Neck shape and feel is also important, and you can get closer string spacing on a wider neck with some extra room at the edges. But don't ignore the unique things like this fingertip-fretting trick that make a mandolin what it is, more like a fretted fiddle than a little guitar. Of course if you have big hands and big fingertip pads, this might work on wider necks too.

[Jerry LM]

There is a wealth of information on this thread for sure,, more than I expected and I really appreciate it. No there are not much in places to try mandolins in this small coastal town, Eugene has one I know of and maybe Portland.
I just realized when I was reading so much praise here for Weber they are located in Bend Oregon, a place I visit quite a bit in the summer, and wondering if they have factory tours?
I am just soaking in all this stuff, I do notice now playing my Loar 1 1/8" nut that my finger tips when on the A string want to mute the E string, I think my callused tips from many hours on guitar are a little large. That extra 1/16" might be just enough for me to fit in there?

[Beanzy]

I’ve ended up with a preference for both, just in different scenarios. I’m a fat fingered player where the physics just means that my fingers won’t normally fit on courses without touching adjacent ones, so often it’s a bit of a dance to decide whether I mush just the courses above or below & in certain types of playing it was getting quite limiting on the 1” nut or 1”1/16 I had.
I prefer short-scale bowl-back with a narrow nut for fast single line tunes (with maybe double stops at most) for the speed and ease of reach. The main thing is my preference is for a v-shaped neck profile, that’s where my decisions start.
I comissioned a mandolin with a 33mm nut and it was very liberating, my chord based playing, crosspicking and anything needing sustaining notes has me reaching for that now. There’s just enough room for the tips to avoid adjacent courses & I had it made with more space on the treble side edge so my fat fingers don’t damp the outer e string when curled tight.

There’s no real issue switching between the two as I tend to approach them with a different expectation from each. Having said that, if I didn’t have fat fingers then I’d go with a narower nut. So really I’d advise you to look at your hands and see how they compare with others, if you're of normal size then stick with the average.

An important part of the mandolin is the hold attitude of the hand and there’s a whole school of approach that is based around guitar type techniques favouring the more lute-like attitude, where a wider nut is used. I prefer the other more violin like approach, which actually suits my finger tips less but my hands more (these things are rarely straightforward) I think you’ll find there isn’t a right or wrong answer, mostly just preferences based on style and comfort.

(We had our fly-away tandem made by Co-motion in Eugene about 20 years ago. It’s a great piece of engineering)

[Jerry LM]

Wow that's about 1 5/18 if my brain is working right here, I think the extra 1/16 would work for me if I go up in width to 3/16, I only seem to need a tiny more space on the A course to clear the E strings. Course being a beginner a lot of thins could be my inexperience so I need to play this standard 1/8 for a while to decide. I will most likely give more attention to the wider nut offerings but don't think I would pass a really great deal on the narrower 1/8. Looking for used mainly and there are some smoking deals out there!

[Jim Garber]

I assume you are referring to Beanzy’s post and mention of a 33mm nut. That is slightly wider than 1-1/8 (1.29”).

[Jerry LM]

Ya Jim, I guess my brain wasn't awake yet 1 5/16" right? Never have caught on to the metric stuff working in machine shops for years always standard measures, showing my age..

[sblock]

Wow that's about 1 5/18 if my brain is working right here, I think the extra 1/16 would work for me if I go up in width to 3/16, I only seem to need a tiny more space on the A course to clear the E strings. Course being a beginner a lot of thins could be my inexperience so I need to play this standard 1/8 for a while to decide. I will most likely give more attention to the wider nut offerings but don't think I would pass a really great deal on the narrower 1/8. Looking for used mainly and there are some smoking deals out there!

Given that you are a self-described beginner, it's important to remember that nut width is not everything, and that 1/16" differences in the published width are not that meaningful, for at least these four reasons.

1) For ease of playability, the shape of the fingerboard matters, too. Is it flat? Is it radiused?

2) For ease of playability, the neck profile matters, as well. Is it shallow? Is it deep?

3) As you improve, your ability to handle the string spacing also improves, as well. It may matter more to you now than it will down the road.

4) And -- drum roll! -- please realize that the inter-course string spacing, which is tripping you up, is not necessarily dictated by the nut width. This spacing depends on the exact locations of the slots in the nut. In practice, I have seen plenty of supposedly "wide nut" mandolins that have equivalently narrow, inter-course spacing as my "standard" nut mandolin. In a good many cases, these "wide nut" mandolins have their slots in the same relative positions as standard nut mandolins, in fact! They just have a greater distance from the outer courses to the edge of the fingerboard. And some wide nut mandolins also increase the intra-course spacing (that is, the spacing between identical strings in a single course), which seems counter-productive to me. In summary, a "wide nut" can be all over the place, and is no guarantee of playability. You just have to try it. Or, at least, measure and compare the nut slot spacing, not just the overall nut width.

[Jeff Hildreth]

For the record and FYI:

1 1/8" = 28.58 mm

1 1/4" = 31.75 mm

1 5/16" = 33.34

Therefore as per my original post, 33 mm is a scrid less than 1 5/16".

[J-45er]

I'd be more concerned with string spacing than nut width.

Assuming a narrower nut width = narrower string spacing (which may or may not necessarily be the case), a narrower string spacing may make it slightly easier to tremolo over double stops. That's one advantage many leave out but, in all fairness, many mandolin players never encounter such a requirement. It's definitely not something someone would likely encounter as a beginner.

[Tom Coletti]

The only time I tend to feel a difference between a standard and wide nut mandolin is when I try to fret both the D and A course with one finger for a partial E chord; it's slightly easier when the strings are closer together. That being said, I swap between standard and wide nut width without any other notable effect on chording. As others have mentioned, try both in a variety of neck shapes, the latter may be more immediately felt and develop your preferences faster than nut width.

[Jerry LM]

Don't know why I have not till now but just took a machinist rule to my mandolin and it is from side to side at the nut 1 3/16", exactly, and it's supposed to be 1 1/8" according to the info on the Loar site.
Anyway after playing it for a few hours over the past few days it's fine,,,whatever it is?
"

[Jeff Hildreth]

"I'd be more concerned with string spacing than nut width."

And that is the point of a proper, wide, adult nut width. ..... string spacing.
Without the required nut width.. (obvious) string spacing is limited.

[allenhopkins]

I'm never suede by the width of any nuts -- pecans, macadamia, cashews (gesundheit!). I just hyde my naugas and keep pickin'...