Scales.

[KGreene]

"Scales are tools" ... I couldn't agree more. Just as arpeggios, double stops and chords are tools. But like any tool, if you don't learn to use it to its fullest extent, only a finite amount of satisfaction will be derived. You don't learn to use them to their fullest extent without consistent practice (at least an hour or two a day for me). I tend to use scales for warm up, practice (especially ascending and descending scales) and incorporate them into playing. It wasn't until it clicked for me that utilizing the different tools into a single lick, solo or fill, that I realized I wasn't using the tools to their fullest extent. I now mix two or more tools such as portions of Major, minor, pentatonic, blues, arpeggios, double stops, etc. into a single solo (dependent upon what the song allows). Now I know why I felt as if I had reached a plateau and felt as though I wasn't making any significant progress at one point. Once I figured out how to use the tools together, it seems I find or can create something with pretty much any song... It has really provided me a better understanding of the fret-board and shifting and, it has opened (at least to date) what seems to be limitless doors for improvisation...even with first time tunes I have never played before.

I don't think I'll ever reach a state of Thile or Stuart 'esque (or the like), But, I'm having fun with it ... and even picking up some pocket change a couple times a month ... just for having fun!!

[JeffD]

I would love to take credit for having the discipline and work ethic to play scales and arpeggios and etudes and exercises as much as i do. But...

The dirty little truth is I enjoy it. I am such a mandolin fan-boy, that I often just want to make mandolinny noises, but have no particular tune I want to play or explore. At such times, scales and arpeggios are just exactly right. No commitment to a particular tune or genre or expression, just a huge great pile of notes to play with. Try different phrasing, different volumes, try to infuse them with different emotions.

I think in my case that learning to play expressively gets sidetracked when I am working on a tune. Or, if its a tune I know, then the tune defines the range of expressiveness. Scales and arpeggios OTOH mean nothing in themselves, so its fun to try and make them sound or sad, or desperate, or even sprightly. Jig them, reel them, hornpipe them, tremolo them, go crazy.

But the bottom line is that for me, I often want (need) to play no particular thing on the mandolin.

I often try dashing myself against this rock.

[Mark Gunter]

When I hear something I want to play, that's usually when I try and learn something new, and when I'll discover a new chord or pattern, etc. Such a casual approach is probably hard for some here to understand.

I wonder how hard that really is for folk to understand, when speaking of chords. Forgetting scales for a moment, and considering chords ... I have always figured that the best way to learn new chords is to try out different voicings whenever you're learning some new music you're interested in. I think that learning chords is a whole different world apart from learning scales. I could be wrong, and it would be interesting to know from others, but I doubt that many people learn chords by practicing and memorizing shapes from a chord sheet apart from playing actual music. Chords are by definition harmony so learning chords out of any context makes no sense to me.

Scales are musical skeletons and need no particular context in order to learn them, practice them, play around with them and have fun with them while you work at them. Learning scales can be a natural springboard to learning music theory and chord building; knowing some theory and scales will help you to find your own chord voicings ... but the way to truly learn chords for me is exactly the way you've done it. By trying to learn and play music I'm interested in.

[Simon DS]

I’ve always thought it was cool when I heard a mandolinist play the melody a third or fifth above or below the singer. Or as a reply. Or even as two mandolins harmonising a tune.
So I’m looking at FFcP scales to figure out if there’s some sort of easy shifting, or doublestop technique. Or final resort, maybe there’s a Tab program that will convert a tune to its third etc.

[Drew Barton]

I wonder how hard that really is for folk to understand, when speaking of chords. Forgetting scales for a moment, and considering chords ... I have always figured that the best way to learn new chords is to try out different voicings whenever you're learning some new music you're interested in. I think that learning chords is a whole different world apart from learning scales. I could be wrong, and it would be interesting to know from others, but I doubt that many people learn chords by practicing and memorizing shapes from a chord sheet apart from playing actual music. Chords are by definition harmony so learning chords out of any context makes no sense to me.

Scales are musical skeletons and need no particular context in order to learn them, practice them, play around with them and have fun with them while you work at them. Learning scales can be a natural springboard to learning music theory and chord building; knowing some theory and scales will help you to find your own chord voicings ... but the way to truly learn chords for me is exactly the way you've done it. By trying to learn and play music I'm interested in.

lot of truth there. chords for me are the second most difficult thing right behind learning by ear. It may be psychosomatic, but I can do neither. chords are work, and not good work, and hard to get to sound good. hearing and learning by ear to me is an exercise in misery but scales always sound good.

[David L]

I’ve always thought it was cool when I heard a mandolinist play the melody a third or fifth above or below the singer. Or as a reply. Or even as two mandolins harmonising a tune.
So I’m looking at FFcP scales to figure out if there’s some sort of easy shifting, or doublestop technique. Or final resort, maybe there’s a Tab program that will convert a tune to its third etc.

The problem with using a program or finger pattern to harmonize a melody (whether played or sung), is that there are too many exceptions and inconsistencies. Start by playing the next CHORD TONE above or below the melody. Then follow the general contour of the melody, but stay on chord tones as the melody and chords change. Sometimes you end up a fourth apart instead of a third. Sometimes you have to jump to a sixth apart. Sometimes, if the melody uses a passing tone (non-chord), then the harmony does, too. The only rule is to use the note which sounds best, which is not always an easy decision.

Playing FFcP or open doesn't really change anything.

[Bill McCall]

.........I was at a camp with Evan Marshall a few years ago and he discussed practicing scales and such...I was pretty proud of myself on my practice of scales, chord tones, etc for about 5 minutes a day or so until he showed me the list of things he does daily...it went on and on and on and he’s no slouch on the mando. Now I realize he’s a pro who plays pretty much all day every day but umm, yeah...he’s a pro who plays pretty much all day every day and part of that is practicing scales.

As a colleague of Evan told me one time, ‘there’s a reason Evan plays like Evan’. Certainly changed the way I practice, including scales.

[DougC]

The exciting part for me is in learning why something works. And it is usually just looking at a tune or phrase in a different way.
I attend an Evan Marshall workshop and he would say " O. K. now lets play it backwards".

[Relio]

I was jamming with a very talented mandolin player a few years ago. Between songs he made a comment to me about my playing and said, "You can hang playing out of double stops..." Then the next song started. I could tell he was playing out of double stops and scales. I now play out of both and have a lot of fun.

[JeffD]

Too often we miss the ‘why’ until we need it then we wish we’d been doing it all along.

Some conflicting thoughts:

One is that its really true that often the best time to learn something is when the need is most appreciated. I know I often try to learn stuff I don't yet need and it usually gets lost and forgotten and when the need actually occurs I have to learn it again.

But I am not sure its exactly that.

In the case where all these skills build on each other, like mandolinning, perhaps the idea is that until not knowing scales is one's most egregious problem there are bigger fish to fry. Like D_U_D_U. Or whatever.

But also, scales can be a good place to build other skills, like intonation, ear training, fretboard negotiation, and yes picking patterns.

But then again, you know what, wherever you start, you will have regrets and things you need to go back and learn. There is no formal front door to this stuff. And you don't have to be able to do everything in order to do something. So we go forward however we go forward. One person discovers the need to go back and get familiar with scales, another has to go back and clean up picking patterns, another has to go back and learn to hear the chord changes. We start where we start and we all will have to go back for something. Promise.

Better than wasting time circling around and around looking for the front door, the right way to start, and not doing anything.