Alternative Mandolin Tunings

[MandoNina]

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I saw a post here the other day about tuning the ukulele as a mandolin. Think it was for the sake of practicing mando chords and what not, without yet having a mandolin.
And on a different post, an indian guy, U.Srinivas, played a 5 stringed mando tuned in CGCGC.

Anyway, it got me thinking on how I used to play around with different tunings on guitar. Like DGDGBD and DADGAD, and I was wondering;

What alternative tunings do you like for the mandolin?
And what are the most commonly used tunings in general?

[JeffD]

Old time fiddle uses several alternate tunings, and I have fun trying them out.

• FCGD = Cajun Tuning (one whole step down from GDAE)
• GDGB = Open G Tuning
• GDGD = Sawmill Tuning or "Cross G"
• GDAD = "Gee-Dad"
• DDAD = Dead Man's Tuning, or Open D Tuning, or Bonaparte's Retreat Tuning, or "Dee-Dad"
• ADAE = High Bass Tuning, Old-Timey D Tuning
• AEAE = Cross Tuning, "Cross A", "High Bass, High Counter" (or "High Bass, High Tenor"), Cross Chord; similar to Sawmill Tuning
• AEAC♯ = Black Mountain Rag Tuning, Calico Tuning, Open A Tuning, or Drunken Hiccups Tuning
• AEAD for Old Sledge, Silver Lake
• EDAE for Glory in the Meeting House
• EEAE for Get up in the Cool

[Explorer]

I spent some time learning music for the mandore (the mandolin ancestor), using the tunings GDGD, GDGC and GDGB.

I then spent some time learning some lap dulcimer pieces on the bottom three courses (equivalent pitch spacing to dulcimer's DAD tuning), and did other experiments to really understand how drones and open strings could be incorporated fully.

[JeffD]

Of all the cross tunings I have messed with, my favorite to play in is deadman's tuning DDAD. Some cool sounds to bump into.

Of all the cross tunings I have messed with, there is one I would like to master, which is Calico AEAC♯. I have heard some amazing things in that tuning and I know of one well known old time performer who keeps two fiddles, one in standard and one always in Calico.

At festivals where there are workshops on alternative tunings, the string vendors are in force, making hay while the sun shines.

[JeffD]

I think alternate tunings among guitarists are more popular with those who conceive of guitar playing as a great big huge pile of arcane finger positions, where learning a few more arbitrary patterns and their context is no big deal - as opposed to those who are more oriented to the theory and the notes and reading music etc., where tuning the guitar differently is like suddenly having to drive in the UK.

Of course at the top performing levels this is much less true. Guitarists at the top levels can do it all, with no visible effort.

[Ray(T)]

I don't see what the problem is with having to drive in the UK - I have no problem driving in the US except that you have the annoying habit of putting the steering wheel on the wrong side of the car (must hire a McLarren next time!). My mandolins only recognise two tunings - in and out.

[David L]

Radim Zenkl did an album,"Galactic Mandolin", which featured a different tuning on each tune.

[MandoNina]

Do you guys have any sound clips of any of these tunings?

[DavidKOS]

Me - I never tune my mandolin to anything but GDAE. I have no reason to. I don't play old-time fiddle tunes, and if I want open tunings I have other instruments like Greek bouzouki and lap steels.

One exception - I have used the Greek-Turkish GDAD on violin.

[catmandu2]

I think alternate tunings among guitarists are more popular with those who conceive of guitar playing as a great big huge pile of arcane finger positions, where learning a few more arbitrary patterns and their context is no big deal - as opposed to those who are more oriented to the theory and the notes and reading music etc., where tuning the guitar differently is like suddenly having to drive in the UK.

Of course at the top performing levels this is much less true. Guitarists at the top levels can do it all, with no visible effort.

Fwiw, "arcane; arbitrary" have no relevance in my experience with using non-standard tunings. There is purposeful reason to use a particular tuning (sound), rather than arbitrarily or randomly arriving at such.

Conversely, standard tuning corresponds with standard notation and traditions predicated on such (classical, jazz, etc), as you correctly observed.

- - - Updated - - -

Me - I never tune my mandolin to anything but GDAE. I have no reason to. I don't play old-time fiddle tunes, and if I want open tunings I have other instruments like Greek bouzouki and lap steels.

One exception - I have used the Greek-Turkish GDAD on violin.

I didnt alter with mndln, but I use several different tunings on fiddle; couple of different ones for oud. Back when I played fretted strings I had many guitars and banjos in various tunings - to avoid string breakage.

If mndln were the only stringed instr I had, I certainly would use all kinds of different tunings with it.

[MandoNina]

Radim Zenkl did an album,"Galactic Mandolin", which featured a different tuning on each tune.

Do you know where I can listen to this? You tube videos are blocked for my country for some reason

[Mandoplumb]

I knew a fiddle player that played Black Mountain Rag with out retuning his fiddle. He said he got tired of retuning so he took the time to learn to play it in standard tuning. Now if you were listening to recording of him and a retuned fiddle and knew much about the fiddle and you knew what you were supposed to be listening for you could have told the difference but just listening you couldn't have told. I think most of the retuning is to make playing " easier" on more like we are accustom to playing

[Explorer]

Me - I never tune my mandolin to anything but GDAE. I have no reason to. I don't play old-time fiddle tunes, and if I want open tunings I have other instruments like Greek bouzouki and lap steels.

One exception - I have used the Greek-Turkish GDAD on violin.

Aren't there a number of classical composers, including JS Bach and Vivaldi, who used alternate tunings in classical music? I suppose one could claim those fit some definitions of "old time" music....

[Jess L.]

Do you guys have any sound clips of any of these tunings?

Well... FWIW, I have a video of "ADAE"-tuned mandolin from last year, but you can't tell much by it, it's mostly a banjo tune with poorly-recorded tinkly mandolin in the background... hardly representative of what that tuning sounds like. Here is the link. It's one of those oldtime tunes that goes on... and on... and on... trance mode lol. At around 0:40 etc, I play a variant of the tune an octave lower on the mandolin, that's about the only time you'll notice a difference (different fingering on the bass string, compared to standard tuning). Anyway that was recorded for MandolinCafe Song-A-Week 438.

Anyone else got any clickable links to better sound clips of alternate tunings where you can actually hear something that isn't drowned out by banjo and dishes being washed in the background?

Anyway, all that aside, if I had to choose just one alternate tuning for either mandolin or (in the old days) fiddle, it would not be ADAE as above key-of-D tune, instead I'd choose AEAE which works good for lots of tunes in the key of A. On a properly-recorded mandolin, AEAE will give you a nice kind of ethereal 'ringing' sound, useful for solos or duets etc. Plus it's super easy to play octave-lower variants, just move over 2 strings and play the exact same fingerings (might have to use some creativity to make up substitutes for some of the lowest notes in some tunes).

But, IMO, not much point in using alternate tunings (on mandolin) if you're playing with a whole bunch of other people in a large group or jam, because any subtleties of the tuning (ringing, sustain, etc) will be lost in the overall group sound.


Edited to add:

... what are the most commonly used tunings in general?

For fiddle, it used to always be AEAE (for tunes in the key of A), and ADAE. For public performance on mandolin, as far as I can recall I always just used standard GDAE, mandolins are hard enough to keep in tune with lights and wind etc, don't need to make it worse by retuning the darn thing. I suppose a person could keep multiple mandolins for different tunings (I used to do that with other instruments). Anyway the alternate tunings can be fun on mandolin when you're not under pressure and you have more time (and less noise) to enjoy the sounds of 'open' tunings such as AEAE.

One other thing: Probably one of the reasons that alternate tunings aren't more commonly used on mandolin, is because a mandolin might require some time (hours or days) to settle in to a new tuning before it stabilizes to where it doesn't need retuned again every 3 minutes. In my case now, with this el-cheapo plywood Rogue, the plywood (laminated) top is fairly inert to start with and it doesn't upset it too much to retune it to ADAE or AEAE or back down to GDAE... but I'm using extra light gauge strings too. If I was going to do very much playing in those tunings, I would definitely acquire another mandolin for standard tuning, just for convenience. I haven't (yet) had the problem of broken strings due to too much retuning up/down 1 or 2 frets, although I've occasionally seen that on other instruments in the past.

[NursingDaBlues]

I suppose a person could keep multiple mandolins for different tunings (I used to do that with other instruments). Anyway the alternate tunings can be fun on mandolin when you're not under pressure and you have more time (and less noise) to enjoy the sounds of 'open' tunings such as AEAE.

Just as a suggestion:

While alternate tunings are fun to experiment with and/or use on any instrument, consider leaving them at home. The time required to perform multiple re-tunings in a set can be extremely irritating to an audience; so much so that a person can lose an audience regardless of how good he or she is.

If you have to use alternate tunings, multiple mandolins or guitars or whatever in a performance setting are a good idea. (I guess I need to leave banjos out of this because...well...just because.)

[David L]

Do you know where I can listen to this? You tube videos are blocked for my country for some reason

I have a recording. Order a cd from Zenkl and support a musician.

[ollaimh]

don't hate me, i tune adad most of the time. i am self taught. i got my first mandolin out in the country with no teacher. i didn't know how it was tuned. i already tuned bouzouki adad or gdad, so i tuned it the same. by the time i met other players i had fifty tunes by ear in that tuning. good for d and g tunes which ismost of celtic. so what the heck

[dhergert]

I tune my mandolins to GCEG all the time, it's the only tuning I use. Also called Open C, Taropatch C, slack key C. It has the same intervals and chord patterns as 5-string banjo capoed up 5 frets without the fifth string. I use standard mandolin strings for the 4th and 3rd string courses and heavier than normal strings for the 2nd and 1st string courses. Tone is great, most people, even other mandolin players, don't realize that I'm using a nonstandard tuning. I flatpick, playing mostly chord melodies.

I used to feel shy about this, because my main instrument is banjo, but then a very accomplished mandolin player friend of mine started using this tuning and liking it better for chord melodies. Also, I figure banjos have been tuned like violins and mandolins for almost a century, so tuning a mandolin like a banjo isn't any worse.

[August Watters]

While alternate tunings are fun to experiment with and/or use on any instrument, consider leaving them at home. The time required to perform multiple re-tunings in a set can be extremely irritating to an audience; so much so that a person can lose an audience regardless of how good he or she is.

Bill Monroe regularly traveled with two mandolins, one tuned to "Get Up John" tuning. I take a page from him when performing anything with altered tunings, by bringing an extra mandolin just for that tuning.

[August Watters]

Aren't there a number of classical composers, including JS Bach and Vivaldi, who used alternate tunings in classical music?

Yes, and there's 19th- and 20th-century classical and popular music composed for mandolin, where only one string of a course has been retuned. Jim Garber has some of these on his 19th-century tunes page. I won't be surprised to see this device used more in the future.

[Baron Collins-Hill]

I've got a lesson on a bunch of different cross tunings for mandolin. Most of which come from the fiddle tradition, but there's an oddball or two in there as well.



Thanks,
Baron

[dhergert]

Don't forget about Frank Wakefield... Many consider him the master of cross tuning.

[sblock]

Well, you folks seem to have omitted what may be the most idiosyncratic mandolin tuning of all time, namely, the tuning Bill Monroe used for recording "My Last Days on Earth," in the key of Dm. He tuned his mandolin to:

AA DD AC DF

note the 'split string' tunings on the first and second courses. I am not aware of any tune, besides this one, that uses this particular tuning.

[JeffD]

Fwiw, "arcane; arbitrary" have no relevance in my experience with using non-standard tunings. There is purposeful reason to use a particular tuning (sound), rather than arbitrarily or randomly arriving at such.

You are correct. I meant to say "seemingly arcane and seemingly arbitrary".

[dhergert]

So since we're talking about alternative mandolin tunings, let's complete the picture... Historically, how did GDAE tuning become the standard mandolin tuning? Was it simply a convenience for violin players who also wanted to play the mandolin? Or was it actually part of the evolution of the mandolin?