1921 Gibson F4 / help

[Three-Dz]

Found this for sale, guy says he’s aware that the headstock isn’t right. Why and what happened? Does it hurt the value?

[Skip Kelley]

The neck/ headstock screams 1960's. It was re-necked at some point.

[Jim Garber]

Also, looks to me that the back (at least) was refinished. Very odd.

This should hurt the value but if you like the way it sounds and plays and can get it for a bargain price it might be OK. It does look strange to me and would probably bother me.

If it were me I would walk away, tho I do like 1921 Gibsons and the aluminum saddle is cool.

[Three-Dz]

Yeah, I’ll probably pass on it. I think I’ll hold off for something else.

[rcc56]

Renecked and at least partially refinished. If it sounds really good, nothing else is wrong with it, and can be bought for $1000, it might be worth it.

[Tom Coletti]

There was recently a damaged 1912-ish F2 that sold for $1K on eBay with a chipped top, broken seams and missing bridge. Just as a reference point for how low this hodge-podge F-4 is priced.

[Bob A]

Back finish is newish, neck is a replacement, top has been stripped and refinned also. If the neck/body joint has not been remade into some sort of Frankenjoint, and the internals are OK, and it sounds good, and you can live with the anomalies, it would be the archetype of a "player's instrument". You would be hard pressed to use it as a base from which to trade up, if that sort of thing is in your future. There's a quite limited market for that sort of thing.

The bottom line is sound and playability. Without those qualities, walk away.

[dhergert]

The back's finish and the peghead look to me like '60s Gibson work. I wonder if it went back to the factory. It would be nice to have some record of what happened.

[William Smith]

Yes for sure sent to Gibson in the 60's and got a new neck with freakishly large peg head, looks like they retained the original bridge, tailpiece cover and tuners? But also a refinish! What is the asking price for her?

[Jeff Mando]

As I see it, a modified instrument would have zero collector value, even starting out as a 1921. If it is a good player, having old wood from 1921 would have value to a player, despite the more recent neck, if that is indeed the case. Nobody has said how much it is, so it would depend on price, IMHO.

[rcc56]

Just for the record: it is highly unlikely that Gibson made any black top F-4's after 1916 or so.

Of course, a refinished F-4 body has some value [but not a lot] if it is structurally sound and hasn't been worked too thin in the refinishing process. Generally speaking, F-4's were good mandolins, although I have seen some duds.

An industrious person could take this mandolin, reshape and re-veneer the peghead or make a correct replacement neck, and apply a good varnish finish and have a nice mandolin. IF the price is low enough. Even so, the instrument will never have much of a market value.

At this point, though, I'm no longer interested in that sort of project, but it may be a good project for an aspiring younger person who wants to develop their lutherie skills.

[William Smith]

Yeh I'd also like to know the asking price but knowing what I know the seller pry thinks he has serious gold because its a "GIBSON" We've all seen this way too often! I'd say 1000 or under would be a deal?

[Jeff Mando]

I doubt it's cheap, considering how easy it is to "research" prices online. He probably found them in the $4-7K range, and is willing to knock off some for the "headstock not being right." Just a guess. Obviously, it is on craigslist, but I am not clever enough to locate it without knowing the city, which the OP is not revealing.

[Three-Dz]

Update on the - F4 / Owner wants $2500 firm, I told him of all the discussions hear. He responded back to me with (firm). If anyone is interested pm and I'll give you the listing. I'm passing!

[Tom C]

To me the neck..or at least head stock does not even look gibson to me.

[William Smith]

2500, yeh right! Well there are suckers born every minute. It looks Gibson factory work to me. There are countless Gibson's that were sent back to gibson for repairs and refinish in the 50's-60's, many Loars included.