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Thread: Avoiding micro bubbles in waterbase finish

  1. #1
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    Default Avoiding micro bubbles in waterbase finish

    I'm having a problem with micro bubbles in my finish. I using Target EM6000 my gun is an Walcom EGO. I can't seem to get it to atomize smoothly. I could do a better job with my air brush but it would be really slow. Shooting at around 30psi. Any experts with some suggestions? Thanks ---Gary

  2. #2

    Default Re: Avoiding micro bubbles in waterbase finish

    I spray EM6000 with a Sata mini-jet and have never had problems with bubbles. I tend to spray very light coats, but even if I go heavy it will sag, but no bubbles. Sorry, that's not any help.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Avoiding micro bubbles in waterbase finish

    Thanks Joe, I think my regulator on my gun is out of wack. I increased pressure and dropped the volume and went for a lighter coat. The problem seems to have cleared up. I don't do this often enough. I get get 2 mando's finished a year. Trying for a couple more this year.

  4. #4
    Registered User Steve Sorensen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avoiding micro bubbles in waterbase finish

    Use a different finish.

    Steve
    Steve Sorensen
    Sorensen Mandolin & Guitar Co.
    www.sorensenstrings.com

  5. #5

    Default Re: Avoiding micro bubbles in waterbase finish

    I spray the EM6000 with generic hvlp at 40 psi, 1.4 tip.. Love the target coatings products.. I do recall having an issue some years back with micro bubbles..but to long ago to remember how I fixed it..

  6. #6
    Registered User fscotte's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avoiding micro bubbles in waterbase finish

    Just get a can of blush reducer. One can will last you a long time. I no longer worry about humidity or temp.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Avoiding micro bubbles in waterbase finish

    Glad to hear you got it figured out, Gary. EM6000 is a great finish, I love it. Just like any other finish, figuring out the best way for you to use it is the big trick.

  8. #8
    Registered User Mandoborg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avoiding micro bubbles in waterbase finish

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenS View Post
    Use a different finish.

    Steve
    What a ridiculous, asinine answer . If we can be serious, try to contact Lauri Girourd , she puts down the best waterbase finish around and she and Max are good people.

  9. #9
    Registered User AaronVW's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avoiding micro bubbles in waterbase finish

    A little off topic, but is anyone using the em2000? E m 6000 is more like a lacquer than a varnish and burns in between layers leaving no witness lines if I'm not mistaken? I have heard that it will leave a bluish hue though. Any thoughts?

  10. #10

    Default Re: Avoiding micro bubbles in waterbase finish

    I have had no problems with blue hues. Some builders I thought would know it was not nitro have asked me if it is. It does burn in for 48 hours, after that there can be witness lines. I recently bought a gallon of the EM2000 varnish, but haven't used it yet.

  11. #11
    I may be old but I'm ugly billhay4's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avoiding micro bubbles in waterbase finish

    What a ridiculous, asinine answer .
    Chill out a bit, Mandoborg. Steve is a respected builder. What he's saying is that there are many finishes out there. Why bother with one that you get these results with?
    Bill
    IM(NS)HO

  12. #12
    Registered User AaronVW's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avoiding micro bubbles in waterbase finish

    Thanks, Joe. I'm thinking of finishing my next build with EM2000. I have read a few of the threads on here regarding these finishes and people seem to have generally positive use of both. Just always interested what people's experiences have been. I do have spray equipment but was thinking about applying the varnish by brush, leveling and then French polish shellac over to finish.

  13. #13
    Registered User Mandoborg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avoiding micro bubbles in waterbase finish

    Quote Originally Posted by billhay4 View Post
    Chill out a bit, Mandoborg. Steve is a respected builder. What he's saying is that there are many finishes out there. Why bother with one that you get these results with?
    Bill
    I know he's a respected builder and I admire his work. It's that very point that made that comment so sad. How about offering up some helpful advice instead of just tossing out a drive by comment ? Or maybe talk about your results, if tried, using the same finish ? I don't use a waterborne finish, so I can't comment, but I tried to point him in the direction of someone I respect that might be able to help out. It would have been foolish for me to just say ' Use Epifanes '.....anyway......my apologies....I didn't mean to offend....

  14. #14
    Mandolin & Mandola maker
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    Default Re: Avoiding micro bubbles in waterbase finish

    I use EM2000. Have been using it or it's predecessors for many years.
    Peter Coombe - mandolins, mandolas and guitars
    http://www.petercoombe.com

  15. #15
    Registered User lauri Girouard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avoiding micro bubbles in waterbase finish

    We have not used EM6000, but have used EM2000 which has the same viscosity but a higher solids content. We were using the Walcom EGO gun, compressor regulated to 80 lb, running through a dryer then a desiccant/particulate combo filter. Air then regulated down to 1.5 bar (22 psi) at the gun. After a couple years use we started seeing micro bubbles. I thoroughly cleaned it out and rebuilt it, but it was still giving me problems. It was time for a new gun, so I purchased the Walcom Slim and have had no further problems. Target coatings does recommend a tip size of 1.3 -1.5 so make sure your tip is the correct size. I know the EGO came standard with a 1.2 mm tip.

  16. #16
    Registered User AaronVW's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avoiding micro bubbles in waterbase finish

    Lauri, have you brushed EM2000 or only spray? I know Target coatings says that it is a very brush friendly finish but didn't know what some user experiences have been.

  17. #17
    Mandolin & Mandola maker
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    Default Re: Avoiding micro bubbles in waterbase finish

    I brush EM2000. You do get brush marks, but they can be levelled out so as to be completely invisible. The key is to use a high quality artificial bristle brush, and level sand after 5-6 coats.
    Peter Coombe - mandolins, mandolas and guitars
    http://www.petercoombe.com

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Avoiding micro bubbles in waterbase finish

    Not with these particular finishes, but I have had good luck brushing with a foam “brush”. It leaves no bristle marks. You can’t use it on all finishes, nitrocellulose lacquer would eat the brush, probably shellac too, but for oil based varnish it worked for me quite well. Seems to me like it should work well for a water based finish. Test on scrap first of course.
    Don

    2016 Weber Custom Bitterroot F
    2011 Weber Bitterroot A
    1974 Martin Style A

  19. #19
    Registered User lauri Girouard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avoiding micro bubbles in waterbase finish

    Quote Originally Posted by AaronVW View Post
    Lauri, have you brushed EM2000 or only spray? I know Target coatings says that it is a very brush friendly finish but didn't know what some user experiences have been.
    I only brush in the hard to reach areas such as under the extension or all the nooks and crannies on an F model. I'll mirror what Peter says about the high quality artificial bristle brush. I've tried natural hair brushes, and they tend to leave bubbles in the finish.

  20. #20
    Phoenix Mandolins Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Avoiding micro bubbles in waterbase finish

    I use EM2000 on Phoenix
    Jenny Warner

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