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Thread: Eastman Violins for Fiddles?

  1. #1

    Default Eastman Violins for Fiddles?

    Hi Cafe! Does anyone have experience with Eastman violins for fiddling? I am going to be dumb enough to try and make the transition from mandolin to fiddle. As a nice guy I met yesterday who is learning banjo said "Why not?! What do I have to lose?" Pride. Pride is the answer. And now I find myself entered into an agreement where I have to be able to play him a fiddle song in a month and he has to play me a banjo song.

    Anyway- I love Eastman mandolins and think they are the best for the money out there and am wondering if anyone has experience with the Eastman violin line? Also what would a MD305 equivalent in the violin world would be and what can I expect to pay?

    Thanks!

    Apologies as I didn't know where else to ask this and am not sure if this is the right thread.

  2. #2
    Registered User dwc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eastman Violins for Fiddles?

    Short answer, they are fine.

    Much longer answer, I would never claim to be a fiddler, but I can play a few tunes on the fiddle, the result of having tried the very same thing that you are about to embark on. I failed, in part because I am left handed but I play musical instruments right handed. Playing with fingers or a pick with my off hand is one thing, playing con arco is an entirely different thing, and something that I could never get a handle on.

    Now, about violins. In the beginner/lower price range, which for violins means below about $3k, you have two choices, old trade fiddles from Europe or new/recent factory/small shop fiddles from China. Pretty much everything that can be said about buying your first mandolin applies doubly to violins. In the same way that Eastman mandolins can be somewhat inconsistent from instrument to instrument, so to are their fiddles. You probably won't run into an outright dog, but there are really good Eastman violins and some pretty "meh" Eastman violins.

    Here is the thing. You probably can't tell the difference because you can't play it yet. That is why I recommend buying from a real string shop. A string shop is not a guitar store with one lonely fiddle hanging on the wall, and it isn't the place where you rent middle school band instruments. If you walk in and see dozens of violins, violas and cellos, you are in the right place. Just like we here at mandolin cafe recommend buying your first mandolin from a reputable mandolin store, you should buy your first fiddle from a string shop. One of the main reasons for this is setup. We tell guitarists that a mandolin setup is more in depth than a guitar setup, and a violin setup is even more involved than a mandolin setup. Improperly set up violins can be unplayable, but again, in the beginning you won't know because everything about the violin is so new and so hard. It gets better quick, but in the beginning, it is hard to tell if you just suck or if it is the instrument, so buy from a reputable string shop to eliminate one variable.

    The final piece of advice I have is get ready for some sticker shock with respect to bows. Guitarists and mandolinists think $35 for a Blue Chip is steep. Be prepared to spend 3 figures on a beginner bow. Carbon fiber is probably your most economical choice as
    Pernambuco bows begin at about $500.

    I guess I actually have one more anecdote. I looked at Eastman and Samuel Shen violins, but I ended up spending a little more and going with a Jay Haide la' Ancienne. I kind of thought of it as the Northfield of beginner violins. Still an import, but a little higher quality, a little better sound, but again, it is still a import violin, so I don't think you can expect Collings level consistency in fit, finish and tone, even from a Jay Haide.
    Northfield Artist Series F5 (2 bar, Adirondack)

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    Registered User bruce.b's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eastman Violins for Fiddles?


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    Default Re: Eastman Violins for Fiddles?

    This is a good question, that I, too, thought about after recently seeing a mint condition Eastman viola at a pawn shop for $100. It seemed like a no brainer, knowing the Eastman name from the mandolin world, but I was wondering if it was a different division of Eastman or if the quality was lower?

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    Registered User SincereCorgi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eastman Violins for Fiddles?

    Quote Originally Posted by dwc View Post
    Much longer answer...
    Good post. My 2¢ would be that Eastman's are good and fairly safe, but try to spend a little more on their 200 or 300 series, as it's a very big step up from their student line.

    Also: violin is really hard to start if you're over the age of 14 or so. Maybe rent for a few months, ideally from a reputable shop, before plunking down $900. Find a good teacher as soon as you can. Violin's kind of a posture nightmare and doing it wrong can mess you up.

  7. #6

    Default Re: Eastman Violins for Fiddles?

    Quote Originally Posted by bruce.b View Post
    Wait a minute, how'd we get all the way up to three grand?

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    Registered User bruce.b's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eastman Violins for Fiddles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Mando View Post
    Wait a minute, how'd we get all the way up to three grand?
    DWC’s post. Second paragraph, second sentence. Beginner violin catagory. The fiddles I mentioned are potential lifetime fiddles.

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    Registered User Louise NM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eastman Violins for Fiddles?

    Eastman started out making violin-family instruments, and went into the guitar and mandolin business later. Same company, same solid reputation.

    You are probably looking at a starting price around $500 or so for an outfit---violin, bow, and case. You might want to look into renting for a couple of months. Most places will apply the first six months or year of rental fees towards a purchase.

    As others said, patronize a local shop if at all possible. If not, Shar Music, Southwest Strings, and Johnson Strings are all reputable online dealers. Don't fall for the $100 ebay specials. To put that in perspective, a midrange set of violin strings costs about $60. (They last lots longer than mandolin strings!)
    Last edited by Louise NM; Mar-19-2018 at 2:24pm. Reason: Fat fingers

  12. #9

    Default Re: Eastman Violins for Fiddles?

    The Eastman Violins are popular as fiddles. It is the same company making the Mandolins, in fact, that's why they were able to jump in and do so well, so quickly. They already had the trained violin makers, they already had aged woods, etc...

    You want to get up into the higher models though. Eastman, Scott Cao, and Snow, Would be something like the Eastman mandolins, in that are good solid brands that are not super expensive, though they do get up into the thousands.

    Everything about bowed instruments is more expesive. What was that, you only pay $6 for a set of good mandolin strings? Now plan on paying $50+ and they are not exactly durable.

    In my experience, you can get an ok fiddle starting at $500 (if you choose wisely).
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    Unfamous String Buster Beanzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eastman Violins for Fiddles?

    We bought one of the Eastman ‘Young Master’ violin as a grade 5 instrument for my youngster and it did the job well for around £600. He now (grade 8) plays a very nice higher level instrument made in 1871, lent by a student trust, which he plays with a similarly aged bow I bought for £250 in ‘95 as a gift for my wife. We use Pirastro Evah Pirazzi strings which do a good job for approx £65
    The Eastman is still there as one of our house instruments for when he has to return the trust one.
    If I didn’t have my nice funky old fiddle I’d be happy playing that in the orchestra and gigging out. But I suspect he’ll want something else now he’s played concerts and solos on a £2.5K instrument for so long.
    The Eastmans need lots of hours playing to get them going properly from new, but once they settle in they’re a good option.
    There are other factory options by companies such as Westbury which hit a similar quality at a slightly lower price point.
    Eoin



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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eastman Violins for Fiddles?

    Quote Originally Posted by dwc View Post
    The final piece of advice I have is get ready for some sticker shock with respect to bows. Guitarists and mandolinists think $35 for a Blue Chip is steep. Be prepared to spend 3 figures on a beginner bow. Carbon fiber is probably your most economical choice as Pernambuco bows begin at about $500.
    I don't know a lot about Eastman violins tho I do have a friend who is a competent fiddler who plays one as his main instrument. I have never tried his but it sounds and looks nice.

    I think you can get a decent beginner bow for $100 or under. Shar has some imported wooden bows that are playable for a beginner and they also have their own line of carbon fiber bows as well. Yes, if you decide to upgrade for violin bows it will coast you more but in many ways a bow is a lot more than a pick is for a mandolin. The bow is the heart of the violin.

    I found that out probably in the middle of my 40+ years playing fiddle. Many of my old time fiddling friends played old junky fiddle bows and the first decent bow I got in trade for a 1930s Gibson A-1 mandolin. It made a world of difference. I have about three or four bows in the $1000-2000 range but my favorite is a nicely balanced custom carbon fiber Coda bow which I bought for $800 a few years ago.

    I have played a few other no name carbon fiber bows for around $100 or so that are perfectly fine for a beginner. No need to instill fear into a beginner — the instrument is really quite enough for that.
    Jim

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    Registered User Cochiti Don's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eastman Violins for Fiddles?

    I bought a used Eastman as my first fiddle. I like it and it’s was highly rated at 500$ new. I got it used for 185. I’ve only been playing for 30 days so I don’t know enough about the differences. It’s so difficult to learn that I’m not considering an upgrade until I know what I’m doing. That said, no one has bad-mouthed my violin.

    I’m looking at a brand called “snow” as an upgrade. It’s a translation of an Eastern name with a high cache. They retail around 1400.
    Peter Kaufman violin
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    Default Re: Eastman Violins for Fiddles?

    Agree about the price. I play fiddle using a £65 carbon fibre bow. I wasn’t going to pay as much as my cello bows to get fiddling, I’m not trying for that level of subtlety, I’m just playing tunes. No complaints there, just buy a good rosin and decent strings & you’re set to go. My lad hates my cf bow as it feels a bit less certain in his hand than the pernambuco one, he says it’s too skittish for his liking. Then again he plays mostly as a violinist with only occasional fiddle excursions. He likes more tension in his bow too, where I leave them more slack. On cello I often swap between my preferred light bow and my heavier but decent one depending on how I feel about a piece, so I get what he means, but I’d get more value out of a regular re-hairing of the bow than anything more subtle.
    Eoin



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    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Eastman Violins for Fiddles?

    It is important that you get an instrument from a shop that knows how to do a proper set up and will stand behind the instrument. I worked for a violin shop for over twenty years and every pac rim violin, viola and cello, no matter the manufacturer, had to have the set up done over. This included a new bridge, finger board plane and adjusting the tuning pegs.

    You want an instrument that will not be fighting you as you learn.

    Good luck with your fiddle playing!
    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

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    Default Re: Eastman Violins for Fiddles?

    Just as an "aside," did the definition of fiddles and violins change in the last 50 years? I thought they were the same thing. Or, as Roy Acuff would say, a violin is just a fiddle with a college education.... Anyway, the title implies that a violin could be used as a fiddle!? And some of the comments also echo that a fiddle is different than a violin. What is the consensus? Does a violin imply classical music is to be played on it and a fiddle is for folk? Definitely confused and starting to get a headache.......

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    Registered User bruce.b's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eastman Violins for Fiddles?

    A lot of fiddlers use Prim strings or the equivalent. Inexpensive for fiddle strings and they last a long time. I think I paid 33 USD for mine. I bought a lower end Coda carbon fiber bow that I like. I’m not advanced enough to really judge though.

  22. #17
    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Eastman Violins for Fiddles?

    Itzhak Perman referred to his Strad as a fiddle. There is no difference in the instrument.

    The difference is in the setup.
    Fiddle players often want a shallower curve in the head of the bridge to help with double stops and a slightly lower action with non gut type strings.
    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

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    Default Re: Eastman Violins for Fiddles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Mando View Post
    Just as an "aside," did the definition of fiddles and violins change in the last 50 years? I thought they were the same thing. Or, as Roy Acuff would say, a violin is just a fiddle with a college education.... Anyway, the title implies that a violin could be used as a fiddle!? And some of the comments also echo that a fiddle is different than a violin. What is the consensus? Does a violin imply classical music is to be played on it and a fiddle is for folk? Definitely confused and starting to get a headache.......
    The only regular difference or alteration I ever hear is that some fiddlers like to have a flatter bridge if they drone and chord a lot. Most don‘t bother to get to hung up, except for strings, fiddlers seem to get really into the detail of individual string choices & mix & match in a way that violinists outside baroque music don’t. The orchestral players I know seem to just go for something good that comes in a well balanced set, tending to favour projection over complexity. They also like to refer to their ‘fiddle’, but it sounds a bit like they do that to hide how much they really care about stuff most of us might might go ‘yeah, whatever, let’s just get some tunes going’
    For what it’s worth I had my fiddle is set up the same as our violins by the luthier we use.
    Maybe best to think of Fiddle as an attitude to playing on a violin. I have a fiddler head when I pick up a violin, but definitely not when I play the ‘cello.
    Eoin



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    Registered User MissingString's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eastman Violins for Fiddles?

    NFI: Another decent Chinese made "intermediate" violin/fiddle that seems comparable to Eastman is Snow. Similar comment to SincereCorgi, stepping up from the student model makes a difference.

    We looked at a lot of violins for my 6th grade daughter at Johnson Strings and settled on the Snow 400 which had quality upgrades from their entry point instrument. Also agree a decent quality bow can make a massive difference and appears to have really increased the quality of tone compared to the previous one she was playing. We got her a CodaBow Prodigy. I think the violin and bow were about $1500 combined.

    Also, we had a great experience buying a cello for my 8th grade son from Ronald Sachs Violins in the Southeast region. I'm down there frequently for work and was able to investigate. We felt like we got an awful lot of instrument for the money and would certainly use them again.

    Good luck with your pursuits!
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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eastman Violins for Fiddles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanzy View Post
    The only regular difference or alteration I ever hear is that some fiddlers like to have a flatter bridge if they drone and chord a lot. Most don‘t bother to get to hung up, except for strings, fiddlers seem to get really into the detail of individual string choices & mix & match in a way that violinists outside baroque music don’t. The orchestral players I know seem to just go for something good that comes in a well balanced set, tending to favour projection over complexity.
    Maybe that is the way on your side of the Pond. Over here in the US, at least where I live most fiddlers don't even know what strings they are playing. Most of my friends play Helicore steel strings and change them maybe once a year, if that. I thought it was the classical players who are constantly mixing and matching and trying out single strings mostly different e-strings.

    I seem to be one of the few old time fiddlers who plays with a classical set up including strings, using synthetic core strings.
    Jim

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  28. #21

    Default Re: Eastman Violins for Fiddles?

    Thanks for the wide variety of feedback all! It is interesting to see the diverse range of responses that this received ranging from Violin vs Fiddle, is $3k a starter violin?, how much should i spend on a bow, and finally does Eastman make good violins that would work for learning fiddle. I think my next move will be to head on over to my local string shoppe and see what they have to offer in the way of rent to own.

    All that being said I leave here coming to the conclusion that playing fiddle costs 6 times more than playing mandolin according to Mandolin Cafe math.

  29. #22
    Registered User Louise NM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eastman Violins for Fiddles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Mando View Post
    Just as an "aside," did the definition of fiddles and violins change in the last 50 years? I thought they were the same thing. Or, as Roy Acuff would say, a violin is just a fiddle with a college education.... Anyway, the title implies that a violin could be used as a fiddle!? And some of the comments also echo that a fiddle is different than a violin. What is the consensus? Does a violin imply classical music is to be played on it and a fiddle is for folk? Definitely confused and starting to get a headache.......

    Yes, there is a difference: no one cares if you spill beer on a fiddle.

    Also, one has strings and the other has strangs.

    Rasta, you don't have to spend anywhere near $3000 on a starter. You can get a reasonable entry-level instrument for $500 or so, and spending $1000 or $1500 will get you quite a bit more. Anything in this price range will be Chinese-made. Eastman and Snow, as others have said, are good companies. Jay Haide is more expensive, but very good. Same with Scott Cao. Find a good local shop, or call Shar, Southwest, or Johnson. All have smart, capable, caring people answering the phone.

  30. #23
    Unfamous String Buster Beanzy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eastman Violins for Fiddles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    I seem to be one of the few old time fiddlers who plays with a classical set up including strings, using synthetic core strings.
    Interesting insight there; down here I’m the freak with the D'Addario Helicores and the current trend in the orchestral players seems to be those Eva Pirazzi, having been the Thomasticks for a long time before that. My sister in law (pro) & a couple of friends in the local orchestra play the “gold” ones and my son’s cohort use the “green” sets. There seems to be a bit of a herd thing going on there.
    There is a bit of convergence in the baroque and gut string fiddler types. At some of the OT jams it can seem like a series of string discussions interrupted by tunes. Some want the really poke you in the eye sound and others are after the moody more complex tones & nere the twain shall meet it seems.

    Getting back to the Eastmans, that one we got for £600 is all you’d need in a fiddle for years and years. I imagine the dollar price would not be much more than $600. (Darn I looked on ebay and they now go for about £510, which to me seems amazing value as you could then spend the difference on a proper set up).
    Here’s a random vid I stumbled on with someone playing one in a shop to demo them.
    Last edited by Beanzy; Mar-20-2018 at 1:42am.
    Eoin



    "Forget that anyone is listening to you and always listen to yourself" - Fryderyk Chopin

  31. #24

    Default Re: Eastman Violins for Fiddles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Louise NM View Post
    Yes, there is a difference: no one cares if you spill beer on a fiddle.

    Also, one has strings and the other has strangs.
    I'm starting to get it. Kinda like when non-farmers wear bib overalls.......
    Last edited by Jeff Mando; Mar-20-2018 at 2:36am.

  32. #25
    Registered User MissingString's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eastman Violins for Fiddles?

    All that being said I leave here coming to the conclusion that playing fiddle costs 6 times more than playing mandolin according to Mandolin Cafe math.
    And the Mandolin costs 2x that of a guitar. So .... "V= 2G x 3" or "V = 12G" hahaha
    Last edited by MikeEdgerton; Mar-20-2018 at 10:00am. Reason: fixed quote syntax
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