Banjo Mandolin Question

[JDLinn]

Hi ... was recently given a Tyler Mountain Banjo Mandolin. It was strung with 4 ukulele strings and the bridge was in the center of the circle. It was all wrong.

I'm not a mandolin player, guitar player. Too old to learn the new chords, so I strung it up with two sets of guitar strings for the top four strings. So I have 8 strings. It is playing surprisingly well and I'm also encouraged that as I learn to pick correctly and where (up toward the neck), the tone on this is more gentle than I had imagined it would be.

Anyway ... it has 5 "knobs" in the tailpiece for strings. Yet it is an 8-string instrument. The guitar strings have the little end nut on them and don't look so good on the instrument, they also cut into my wrist when strumming. I'm thinking if I go with mandolin strings I could get rid of those "nuts". But My question is, why the 5 "knobs" when there are 8 strings? And could the mandolin strings be tuned to guitar chording? Curious if anybody has tried this. Thank you.
Doug

[MikeEdgerton]

I would suspect it's a 5-string banjo tailpiece. Post a picture of it. If it's a mandolin tailpiece it would have 8 tabs for strings.

Occasionally folks have a desire to tune a mandolin like the top four of a guitar. It really isn't any easier. I'm a guitar player for well over 50 years and I can tell you it's a heck of a lot easier to play an instrument tuned in fifths like a mandolin.

[pops1]

As for strings it is not a mandolin, it is a banjo. That being said don't buy mandolin strings, I use two sets of tenor banjo strings. Bent top mandolins use at the heaviest 10-36 and usually lighter. I don't think the head of a banjo is designed for as much strength as a wooden top with a brace under it. Most think these instruments are brash, using mandolin strings makes them so. Have fun these can be fun instruments to play.

[Willie Poole]

I own a banjo/mandolin and I string it with light gauge mandolin strings with no damage to the head...I don`t play it very much so maybe that isn`t a good answer for you to try the same thing but for the price of one set of light gauge strings you could try it and see if they will work, just don`t tune it all the way up to scale at first and keep a close eye on how much the head sinks when tuning up......

Willie

[allenhopkins]

Probably someone at Tyler Mountain (or whatever the name of the Chinese factory that makes Tyler Mountain instruments) saw "banjo" and reached into the five-string tailpiece drawer.

You can use light-gauge mandolin strings (with loop ends) on your mandolin-banjo, and you can "double up" the loops over three of the five posts you have. Not an ideal solution, but workable.

I Googled around, and couldn't find a dealer that listed mandolin-banjo tailpieces in stock. A regular eight-string mandolin tailpiece won't do; it has to be a banjo tailpiece that attaches to a bracket. There were a couple vintage ones, but they were [a] corroded, and [b] pretty expensive.

You might inquire with Gold Tone, a Florida firm that imports a wide variety of stringed instruments from Asia. They don't show an eight-string banjo tailpiece in their parts inventory -- just four, five and six -- but they sell a mandolin-banjo, presumably with an eight-string tailpiece. I've found in my experience that Gold Tone is quite customer-friendly; I've bought cases and gig bags, as well as a couple of banjo/mandolin family instruments. Might be worth contacting them to see if they'd sell you the correct tailpiece.

[JDLinn]

Here is the picture that was requested. You will see it has eight tuning knobs but only 5 "string" attachment knobs. This is what was confusing. Again, with the guitar strings, it is playing very well ... I'm pleased with it. The problem is the attachment of the guitar strings. With the little "nut" on the ends of the strings, it isn't easy to get 8 strings onto that 5 string tailpiece. :-) I put one string on, then ran the 2nd string THROUGH the little nut of the first string and brought them out of the tailpiece slot together. (Looks ugly, but work). This instrument is not made any more you can view it in "historical instruments" at Tyler Mountain site:

http://www.tylermountain.com/Banjo_Mandolin



PS: Posts and Ideas most appreciated ... thanks to all.

[pops1]

Looks like a 'no knot' tailpiece for a 5 string banjo. Guessing the original broke and this was what was available.

[JDLinn]

Looks like a 'no knot' tailpiece for a 5 string banjo. Guessing the original broke and this was what was available.

I bet you are correct. What is amazing, a guy got this at a flea market 9 years ago. It has been passed around through 7 or 8 people since. Nobody could play it, so they would pass it on. One fellow, as a joke even left it on another person's porch! It became a "white elephant" for the little music community I'm a part of. People would ask, "who's stuck with the little banjo now?" And everybody points and laughs. But last Tuesday, the laughing stopped ... I played it during a 2 hour session with a couple of solo rifts. What's amazing, with all the "history" ... there isn't a scratch on it and all the bright parts are like new, no corrosion, rust, etc. And an eight set tuner head, and a 5 string tailpiece, and guitar strings instead of whatever should be on it, and tuned to guitar ... and dontcha' know .. it works. I call it my "Rescue Banjo." :-) I have a lot of instruments, this one by far is the most fun to play.

So I thought I would ask here after reading some of the great threads on this forum. You folks really have a fine, and informative community here. I appreciate everyone's comments and ideas.

Doug

[MikeEdgerton]

I looked at the pictures online and figured it was a No knot as well. Just doubling up four of the five posts was obviously easier for the manufacturer than modifying a mandolin tailpiece to fit the banjo.

If you use looped strings you can put two on each of those posts.

[JDLinn]

I think that's the answer, loop end strings (I didn't know they even made them in steel). Here the set(s) I think I'll try. Think they'd work?

AMAZON

This is a sweet sounding little instrument, not real tinny like a banjo, a little more mellow as you pick "up toward the neck". Getting rid of those balls at the ends of the strings I think will solve the problem.

[MikeEdgerton]

You know you can just use mandolin strings.

[JDLinn]

Actually, I have a set right here on my desk. Maybe I should try those first. Thanks Mike.

[pops1]

Try two sets of tenor banjo strings, they are loop end and you love the sound over even light mandolins strings.

[JDLinn]

Thanks pops ... Another good idea. I'm getting such a nice "tone" with the guitar strings, I wonder if I'll lose that if I go to mandolin or tenor banjo strings. I think there is only one way to know, try em out and report back. But heck, its a BANJO for cryin' out loud, not supposed to be exactly mellow. The "breakthrough" on this thread for me is "looped" steel strings ... didn't know the term, so didn't see anything on the net. But now I'm finding all kinds of them. The "ball" end really cuts into my wrist when I position it there. Fixed that my wearing a tennis wrist (sweat) band. This project is 100% imagineering ... but a lot of fun. The most fun though to see my friends,who gave the instrument away, sit back and say "I'll be darned" ... fun to take on the impossible even if it is a rescue banjo!

[pops1]

Yea the difference in banjo strings is they are lighter and won't sink the head as much. A 5 string banjo does not use heavy strings and gets a nice and loud sound. Depending on the banjo even deep. Heaviest string is maybe a .028 I have used the two sets of tenor strings for a long time on mandolin banjos, warms them some, which is nice, but there is still plenty of volume. You could use mandolin strings as long as they are light, but when you get pretty light the E is a .009 instead of a .010. Remember the tenor strings can come in different gauges just like anything. Look at the size when you buy.

[JDLinn]

Pops ... so I don't order the wrong gauge for this thing, what gauge do you have on your mandolin banjo. Since I don't know what I'm doing (obviously), I'll follow your lead on that.

Doug

[pops1]

Doug, I am using the GHS 220's that gives you a 10.5 12 20 and 28. The 12 is a little light, but works. You could also get the 230's, but they are phosphor bronze with 11 14 24 30 A little more umph, but still lighter than most mandolin in the wound strings. Martin's are 9 16 23 30. The 16 may be a little much, tho would tune better. With a banjo you don't have to play hard. D'Addario has a tenor and an Irish tenor, but they don't give me the gauges. You see what I am saying in what to look for.

[JDLinn]

OK, great on all. I've printed out your thread post and will be taking it to the music store tomorrow. Thank you for the help, and thanks again to the others on the thread that got me pointed in the right direction. By the way, I talked to a nice fellow at Tyler Mountain. It seems this is the correct way this instrument was constructed ... it needs 8 strings, but has a 5 string tail. It is meant to use "double loops" and keep the center peg unused. So that solves that mystery. Again thanks to everyone. Great forum you folks have here.

Doug

[Verne Andru]

You can remove the ball-ends with a pair of needle-nosed pliers and a bit of finesse if you are so inclined.

[mandroid]

No Knot tail pieces are easy to come by , I used one on my 4 string electric, ball end guitar strings in the 4 spaces between 5 pins..

and if an 8 string just stack loops over the pins..


maybe you can find a Cloud mandolin tailpiece and bend it to fit the banjo mandolin's bolt
where the no-knot is..

[tonydxn]

Five pins is plenty. Lots of mandolins have only four.

[JDLinn]

I get the new strings tomorrow (loops), so I'll be doing the "stringing thing" tomorrow on the porch. I'm betting, thanks to you guys, this is going to work great.