Reciprocating or power carvers for carving plates

[WoMando]

Physical limitations have me looking for alternatives to finger planes and chisels. Going to embark on a carved A-model project and am looking at flexible shaft motors and reciprocating attachments.

I am interested to know of any experience folks have had with these. Can reciprocating carvers do the job? Any brands to steer clear of? What kinds of chisel attachments are recommended?

Thanks!
Laura

[HoGo]

Physical limitations have me looking for alternatives to finger planes and chisels. Going to embark on a carved A-model project and am looking at flexible shaft motors and reciprocating attachments.

I am interested to know of any experience folks have had with these. Can reciprocating carvers do the job? Any brands to steer clear of? What kinds of chisel attachments are recommended?

Thanks!
Laura

Depends on what kind of limitation... Some of the power tools can be harder on your hands than slow carving... The vibrations and shocks can be rally bad. I would suggest having parts rough carved on CNC as an alternative.

Too often I see folks using tools incorrectly or inefficiently and even not sharpened well. For rough carving you want to use muscles of your whole body with tools that remove adequate amount of material safely, not just hands or wrists or you'll certainly going to damage your tendons or joints. Like in sports, posture and effectivity of your moves is crucial.
I've seen folks whittle arching out of hard maple with tiny curved planes where even chopping axe would be acceptable (notice in videos of woodworkers of ancient crafts - often from asian countries how they often work with adze almost down to finished product, only using knives or planes to smooth the surface). Using the right tools you won't even make sweat if you take your time.
On the other hand I also have some problems with wrist that I see can evolve into limitations if I don't take care of me (the damage was not from my luthiery efforts but from DIY remodelling our weekend house where I didn't care enough about efficiency etc...- that's some really hard work on your hands compared to luthiery - digging excaavating soil and lotsa concrete mixing/ pouring and brick laying without access to power - all by hand). I think CNC would be the only alternative to really save my wrists for more instruments.
I've used duplicating carver for several mandolins but realized that I can carve one set before the router gets set up and since I rarely work on more then two mandolins at a time it was not really effective for me. Now if I were working on dozen at time like Gilchrist I would jump back again...

[fox]

I use a 4" mini grinder with a sanding disc, it works extremely quickly for basic stock removal.
There are potential issues though, lots & lots of dust, so best done outside, easy to overdo, so take it carefully using only medium grade disc.
For me that is 'by far and away' the best tool but, I feel confident wielding a mini grinder, it is a tool I have used all my working life.

[billhay4]

pattern router, cnc, pantograph are all easier than any carving method.
Bill

[fscotte]

I use a 4" mini grinder with a sanding disc, it works extremely quickly for basic stock removal.
There are potential issues though, lots & lots of dust, so best done outside, easy to overdo, so take it carefully using only medium grade disc.
For me that is 'by far and away' the best tool but, I feel confident wielding a mini grinder, it is a tool I have used all my working life.

What kind do you have?

[fox]

I don’t really pay that much attention to the make, I have owned quite a few, but just a basic small grinder like this one with a plastic back pad for the disc.

[Dale Ludewig]

To the OP- I have an Automach. It's fairly powerful for what it is. It does fine in spruce and such. Not so good on maple, but still faster than by hand. I rough my tops and backs with a CNC so I only have a little to remove by hand. I would doubt that things you put on the end of a Foredom are going to be very powerful. Like Adrian said, you might want to look into hiring out to someone with a CNC or a duplicarver.

[Marty Jacobson]

I really like the Foredom style reciprocating carver with Flexcut blades. You have even more visibility and control than you do with plain gouges and a mallet. There is no strong effort, grip, or impact. If you have arthritis, you will be able to use it much more easily than plain chisels/gouges. You can get the Wecheer Foredom knockoff with razor sharp Flexcut blades for probably $250 all told. It's a great system and is very effective for carving anything, whether it's mandolin plates or intricate detailed relief carving. You won't be sorry, and the rotary attachment can be used as a superpowered Dremel or even binding router.

[Steve Hinde]

I have been using a Foredom 90 degree grinder with a 2 inch carbide grinding disc. Then finish out with Ibex planes. Very controllable in my opinion, but you need to be cautious. Like shaving off the material a couple mm at a time or less. But LOTS of dust like the 4 inch grinder. I use that too if I have to take off a large amount of material for an archtop guitar or octave mandolin. Make preparations to deal with the dust. I use a downdraft sanding table.
Very beneficial with highly figured Maple.
I went this route because I use the Foredom for routing inlays etc, so it has another use. I have 3 or 4 handpieces set up for different uses. One of the best investments in my shop. Much easier on my hands than the Ibex planes. I have a duplicarver too, but I find I can rough out tops and backs quicker with this, and not out in the cold garage.... I can certainly see the CNC roughing in the near future in my shop, but for now this works for me.

[Jeff Mando]

seems slightly less dangerous than juggling chainsaws, IMHO...................

are you wearing metal gloves and a metal apron? is there a such thing as metal gloves and a metal apron?

[Steve Hinde]

Jeff Mando it is a little more aggressive than a 40 grit 2 inch sanding disc, but not much. Not as scary as you think. There are some tools out there I would never consider using.....the handpiece is guarded and fairly comfortable to handle. Safely away from the action. The piloted dremel binding router is far scarier to me.....the 4 inch grinder IS scary. The trick is holding the plate....and way to easy to mess up.

[Steve Hinde]

[Jeff Mando]

Thanks, Steve. I agree about the Dremel. Was using it to "route" a guitar pickup cavity, it hit a knot and jumped out of my hand, lightly grazing the tips of my four fingers of my left hand, drawing blood, but no serious damage. I got lucky and I'm an experienced woodworker, who knows the risks and to be careful, but things still happen sometimes. Sounds like a cliche, but if you lose your fingers woodworking, the carving of the top suddenly becomes a non-issue.

I just want everyone to be safe and have fun.

[HoGo]

How long does it take to rough carve top or back arch on F-5 to within 1mm with those tools?

From my experience I can carve top arch with gouges and planes in 15 minutes and back in 30-45 minutes depending on figure and hardness of the piece. After that I do one sweep with hand to clean the chips and I'm done. I also spend some 15 minutes on pre-drilling holes for marking arch heights (I drill quite a few holes - every 1" or so) but I would do that for power tool carving as well so I don't have to stop too often and check against templates.
When I was using duplicating carver it took me 10-15 minutes to carve the top or back arch but it took me some 15 minutes to setup the machine and another 15 minutes to clean the mess. When I was doing four backs in a row that was good as I saved time on the setup of the machine.
Here is one old interesting thread from Maestronet:
https://maestronet.com/forum/index.p...carving-video/

[billhay4]

These are wildly optimistic time estimates from a very experienced luthier. Adrian knows carving technique, how to sharpen tools, and wood.
In other words, if you're a novice, multiply them by 5 or 10. And if you're building the first mandolin of a certain design, add jig making time, figuring out clamping, and throwing away the first top or back when you break it or make an uncorrectable carving error.
For repeatable results, I still vote for a CNC, pattern router, or pantograph. For a one off, who knows?
Bill

[fox]

I mainly build four or six string arch top guitars, so I have more stock to remove but I would say it takes me about one hour to rough shape a top inside and out. Then maybe another two hours to get it completely sanded to 240 grit. So probably a mornings work.
If I am shaping a hardwood back it can take longer, maybe a whole day for an octave mandolin sanded to 400 grit.

[WoMando]

I forgot to add that this is my first carved instrument and that I am poor.

[Marty Jacobson]

I started building instruments because I didn't have the money for a commercial instrument. That was a funny funny joke. Good news is that, unlike winning the lottery, you don't have to worry about money ruining your life. :-)

[billhay4]

I forgot to add that this is my first carved instrument and that I am poor.

In that case, carve away. If you learn to do it right, it can be a joy to see a mandolin emerge from a block of wood.
Bill

[Rob Roy]

I'm in a similar boat with aging joints, my finger joints do not like finger planes anymore, especially in figured maple. I followed the path of a modern furniture maker friend who carves Maloof style chairs. A Kutzall spiky donut in an angle grinder has the built in curves to do concave surfaces. Do get the fine grade one and go slow, it will plow through maple like butter. With a steady hand and arcing arm strokes you can get reasonable close. I then switch to a random orbit sander with a ½ thick soft sponge pad and 60 grit paper to smooth things out. Two notes of caution: 1) be prepared for a lot of dust (I do it outside with a mask) and 2)practice on cheap wood first until you get the technique down