Instrument upgrade / Gibson eras

[Mark Miller]

Having just paid the final installment of my daughter's college tuition, I am about to hit the economic sweet spot between college bills in which I may be able to pull off an instrument upgrade. My two options would be to upgrade my Deering Goodtime banjo to a good clawhammer banjo, or to upgrade my Krishot (made by the Czech luthier Eduard Kristufek) A-style mandolin to, say, a Gibson F-5. On the one hand, mandolin is my main instrument, so I'm leaning towards that. On the other, my mandolin is already quite good, given my talent level as good an instrument as I really need, while my banjo is a good student instrument but neither tonally nor aesthetically anything like a quality open-back banjo. I know it's heresy to suggest buying a banjo rather than a mandolin, but I thought I'd just throw that out there and see what people think.

What I'd really like is some advice on the Gibson F-5's. Given my finances, I should be looking at something in the 3-4 k range. Those turn up in the classifieds here from time to time in that range, more often around 5k, which I might be able to reach for if the right one came along. I'm nervous about buying that way since it necessitates buying without playing it, and these instruments are so different one from another. I'd at least like to know more about the different eras of Gibsons and any differences in quality, tone, or consistency they might reflect. Northfields are also in that range, but I played one once and it was wonderful but a little too "sweet" to my ear--don't know if that's typical.

I actually like the tone of my Krishot quite a bit. But I also liked the tone of my Eastman 305 quite a bit, until I tried a much better mandolin. Once I got the Krishot, playing my Eastman was like playing a toy. So part of what I'm wondering is whether that would happen again if I played an F-5 (that I could afford). And barring a lottery win, sometime around this summer/fall will probably be my one chance to find out.

Thanks for your thoughts!

[UsuallyPickin]

Well .... tone is a question of opinion and opinions are like ... never mind ... anyway .... A Gibson A5L or A5G are within your budget. Yes F model mandolins are beautiful in form and tone also. Used Gibson F instruments are usually in the neighborhood of 5 K and have been for awhile. The good news there is that they hold their value fairly well. Be aware that in the 70's the quality of Gibson F 5's took a hit. The 50's and 60's can be better but I would not buy one without playing it. Anything after 1988 is a safer investment. Gibson mandolins were then made in Bozeman Montana by Flatiron. I played an 88 F5L for years. Flatiron is also a brand to investigate. The history there is interesting insofar as who made what where and when. But the mandolins that came out of Bozeman were good and often superior instruments.
The other company you might look into is Collings. Excellent instruments with top quality materials and workmanship.
For an inexpensive OT banjo check out the Gold Tone Bob Carlin model. R/

[DataNick]

With your budget, there are plenty of options for different used Gibson F5s.

From the 1980s on, you'll be in fairly safe territory, but you still have to play each and every mandolin you're considering to buy.

An alternative that I have found to be fairly consistent is a Flatiron Festival F5 from mid 1999-2001. Very good mandolins pretty consistently that are Gibson F-5Gs with the Flatiron nameplate. And they can be had from $2000-$2500 usually. I've played a bunch of them and they were all consistently good mandolins. Gibson QC at that time was reliable....good hunting!

[pops1]

There are several banjo's that would up your game considerably in the 1-1.5k range. Perhaps you could get both. The Krishot is from all I have heard a very nice sounding mandolin and your upgrade may be going from an A to an F style. I am lucky and prefer the A so cheaper upgrade.

[Roger Adams]

The current Dave Harvey Gibsons are top drawer, but will cost you more than you may want to spend. If you are happy with your Krishot, then spend the coin on a fine banjo.

I have one of these, and it has spoiled me for much of anything else! Lovely instrument in both build and sound.

[rcc56]

I have no experience at all with Krishot mandolins, but I see he supplied Curtis McPeake with banjo parts, and Curtis is pretty particular about what he puts his name on. There have certainly been good instruments made by the Czech school of luthiers.

Gibsons from even the best periods can be hit or miss. If you buy a Gibson, play it first or make sure the seller has a 48 hour return policy.

If you decide to put your resources into another mandolin, you might want to consider extending your search to include F-2's and mandolins by other makers.

Goodtime banjos are barely banjos at all, despite an aggressive marketing campaign and an appeal to buyers who insist on a "Made in USA" label. Good modern clawhammer banjos can be had for $1000 to $2000. Good vintage banjos can also be found in the same price range, all the way from Stewart Thoroughbreds in excellent condition to worn but serviceable original Vega Tubaphones and Whyte Laydies. If you add banjos with 5 string conversion necks into the equation, your choices multiply considerably.

The most rewarding open back banjo I have played is my Fairbanks/Vega made Bacon ff Professional #1, with "internal resonator" and donut tone ring. I prefer it to many fancier and more valuable instruments. Only somewhere around 500 of the Fairbanks/Vega made Bacons were built, so we only see maybe 2 or 3 a year on the market. A similar banjo is for sale at Retrofret in Brooklyn [nfi] for $1650. It has some wear and tear, but I am surprised that it has not sold. If you are looking for a good older instrument, it would be worth checking into. They are an established store.

[Mark Miller]

Thanks everyone. If you ask a bunch of mandolin players if you should buy a mandolin or a banjo and they mostly say banjo, that's a sign of something. Good thing you haven't heard me play a mandolin, or even more of you would be saying buy the banjo! Anyway, I do love my Krishot. My Goodtime banjo got me started off well, but it's holding me back from the sound I want--and on the mandolin side, it's definitely my technique that's the limitation, not the instrument. Plus it's about half the cost to get all the banjo I need compared to getting the mando I want. Now the fun part starts. Maybe a trip to Elderly....

[stevedenver]

Patience.
do your research on Fs, price wise.
And, condition is critical, especially fret wear, as a refret can be expensive, and, must be done well.

Imho, anything gibson after 2000 will sound very good, harvey era , about 2006 and after, better still.

Overall, i agree prices will be 5-6K, as i have been keeping abreast of the want ads and shops.

I have played a krishot, and they are a very fine mando. I would urge you to play a/b to make certain you hear the sound you desire and which merits the price. Personally, i dont think for 3-4k you will get a significanly better sound over your krishot, provided its a mid level or higher model. While gibsons are lovely, you might also shop collings Fs, should they appeal to you. Webers too. I have played some smoking weber Fs, which were comparatively inexpensive, ie around 2k. But they dont say gibby, and they dont have the binding and inlay, etc.

Let me give you my 2 cents, IF you find a Gibson F in the 3-4 k range, it is highlylikely to be from a not so good era, ie overbuilt. It will look great, may or may not play well, (neck angle, etc) , may sound dead or plinky, and, it may NOT be a bargain, other than sporting the gibson headstock. Fwiw, too, its really important that you play some expensive ones so you can dial in your ear . A good mando, imho, has sustain and sweetness, and a certain complexity to the sound, both bass and treble clarity , and is a joy to play.

I know this sound cavalier, but in the scheme of owning a good instrument, saving a grand or so, may be not so important over the life of your ownership and joy. It is hard to bite the bullet, but, imho, its better to pop for what you really want than to compromise and then fin dthat you regret it after about a year. Otoh, its horrible to lose sleep over the strain of a purchase. Youll have to chose what you can tolerate. When i came to mando from guitar, i choked on F prices, and, i got my nearly mint F5 fern for $3500, and i thought that was a ton of dough at the time. From a guitar perspective, that is.

As for banjos, i love playing, and, i rather like my deering vega tuba-phone model, my open back. It has a sweet roundness to the sound when played claw style over the fingerboard, yet , with picks next to the bridge has brightness and cut. Great sustain too. They are beautiful, imho. I am very pleased with both my Deerings,but, i have only been playing since about september 2017. I am NOT well educated in different banjo tones, ie i have heard gibsons new and old, hubers, stellings and others, and i dont have a refined ear. I do think set up makes a huge differenece, and i have learned that this is far more complex than any ohter insturment i know of. Simply, i find my deering vega tubaphone very musical to my ear, and fits really well with other instruments.

I now play banjo, barely, in a band, mostly three finger style.

I havent had an inexpensive banjp. But , my bandmate in another band has a inexpensive alu rim rogue, open back, and, while not sweet sounding, it sounds like.a banjo. And works well in the mix. It does not sound sweet, and has a certain harshness and plinkyness, but, again, it works.

I think , a nice mandolin will be a thing of joy for you. I bought my 02 F5 in 2008, from a clueless high end guitar shop , absolute chance and dumb luck, and was completely over joyed with it, and still love it. I did not add other Fs until 2015. The others were a lot more. I got over sticker shock, i guess.

Id ask , what gives you more joy musically, and what style of music do you most enjoy? Which instrument are you most likely to focus on? I used to think mandolin was more versatile, but i have changed. I think they are different , obviously, but about as versatile. I tend to prefer the sound of banjo as singing accompaniment over mandolin, mostly due to the range and timbre. I love mando, but i have always felt odd singing with solo mandolin. Not impossible, just prefer the bassier sound of guitar or banjo.

Otoh, there is nothing more wonderful to schlepp around than a mando. Well probably a harmonica would be.

Best of luck, patience.

[J.Albert]

OP -

$4,000 probably isn't going to buy you an F-5L (or any modern, fully-bound Gibson F-5). You're gonna have to pay more.

In the $2,000-2,500 range, look for a Flatiron Festival F. These are essentially F-5g's with different cosmetics. In the period of 2000-2004 (approximately) both the Festival and the F-5g were produced on the same assembly line.

$3,000-3,500 will get you an F-5g.

You -might- find an F-5L when you reach, say, $4,600 or a little more. But those "finds" will be rare.

Getting into the $5,200+ range is where you're likely to find 2000 and later F-5L's and Ferns. Sometimes around $5,000, depends on how badly the owner wants to sell.

You can even find Sam Bush models in that price range now and then.

Don't overlook the special-order models that Dennis Vance gets at The Mandolin Store. Some of those look -very- nice, especially if he has a used one for sale.

[MikeEdgerton]

Or you could grab a nice A5G and still have enough money for a decent banjo. Congratulations on getting the college tuition out of the way. That's a major step I got through a few years ago.

[Josh Levine]

You could probably find a Harvery era F5G used in your 3-4k range. I haven't been looking but one would think. Those are pretty sweet. Or you could find $1,000 and get a new Duff A5 and be set for life...

[V70416]

I would not buy another mandolin without playing it first.
Ok,I bought a few without playing first but would not do it again.

[Mark Miller]

Given how much I like my Krishot mandolin, while my banjo is a serviceable beginner's banjo, I decided to go the banjo route. Since the banjo offerings are limited in Chicago and I don't have time for a road trip to Elderly, I have broken the cardinal rule of "play before you pay" and commissioned a new banjo from Tim Gardner of Cedar Mountain Banjos. These are beautiful sounding and looking instruments:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgGgvgqhEe4



Thanks for all your input while I thought this through. Happy pickin' everybody!

[desertnight]

Having just paid the final installment of my daughter's college tuition, I am about to hit the economic sweet spot between college bills in which I may be able to pull off an instrument upgrade. My two options would be to upgrade my Deering Goodtime banjo to a good clawhammer banjo, or to upgrade my Krishot (made by the Czech luthier Eduard Kristufek) A-style mandolin to, say, a Gibson F-5. On the one hand, mandolin is my main instrument, so I'm leaning towards that. On the other, my mandolin is already quite good, given my talent level as good an instrument as I really need, while my banjo is a good student instrument but neither tonally nor aesthetically anything like a quality open-back banjo. I know it's heresy to suggest buying a banjo rather than a mandolin, but I thought I'd just throw that out there and see what people think.

What I'd really like is some advice on the Gibson F-5's. Given my finances, I should be looking at something in the 3-4 k range. Those turn up in the classifieds here from time to time in that range, more often around 5k, which I might be able to reach for if the right one came along. I'm nervous about buying that way since it necessitates buying without playing it, and these instruments are so different one from another. I'd at least like to know more about the different eras of Gibsons and any differences in quality, tone, or consistency they might reflect. Northfields are also in that range, but I played one once and it was wonderful but a little too "sweet" to my ear--don't know if that's typical.

I actually like the tone of my Krishot quite a bit. But I also liked the tone of my Eastman 305 quite a bit, until I tried a much better mandolin. Once I got the Krishot, playing my Eastman was like playing a toy. So part of what I'm wondering is whether that would happen again if I played an F-5 (that I could afford). And barring a lottery win, sometime around this summer/fall will probably be my one chance to find out.

Thanks for your thoughts!

One might seriously consider taking a look at and playing a Pava Satin F-5 in that price range. Bell like tone, lots of volume and power and superior work-woman ship. Check out Nate Lee playing a Pava on you-tube. Good Luck!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TkrM6z3Hn0