Poor Man's Gibson

[rcc56]

Thanks for the comments fellers! Think I may just do like some of you said. Save up for me a Gibson, Lord willing. Like to have an F5 style. My budget I guess would be around $1500 to $2500, I guess. Been looking at stuff from the 70's and 80's, read some negative things about the 70's. Heard some on YouTube though, sound good to me anyway.

It could be argued that '70's Gibsons, at least more often than not, don't sound like Gibsons at all. In my experience, this statement fits many of the more recent ones I've played also.

Another F-5, not by Gibson, in your price range: a used F-5 by Audie Ratliff at Carter Vintage. Also Cross mandolins, available at Gruhn's and at Carter's. Both brands are made in Tennessee.

If you feel you must have a Gibson F-5, it won't be easy to find one in serviceable condition in your price range.

[itstooloudMike]

I went through this for a long while. I played a high end Eastman (815) for a couple of years, which had a neck similar to many modern Gibsons, but just didn't have the sound. Personally, I don't do too well with most Gibson necks, because they are too narrow for me, and I don't like the deep V carve. I switched to Weber mandolins, because I like the neck so much better. The wide frets and fret-board radius really work well for me. I also like the more rounded neck carve on the Weber. I have a Bitteroot-A that is a wonderful sounding mandolin. But it's not quite the same sound as a Gibson. Every time I pick up a Gibson, I hear this deep, woody, throaty bark, that just sounds like bluegrass. It's undeniable. Although I don't like the way Gibson's play, I have always liked how they sound. I thought I was just going to have to forget about the "Gibson sound", because I couldn't afford to have a custom mandolin made, and wasn't going to force myself to play a mandolin that didn't feel good to my fretting hand. Then, I ran across a mandolin that did the trick for me. It's a Summit F-100. It plays as easily as my Weber (which I will never sell), but has the throaty bark that I wanted to hear. I think Paul Schneider worked for Gibson for a while, so maybe there are build similarities. All I know is that I love the Summit. Great bluegrass sound, along with great playability. And you can usually find used Summits for much less than a used Gibson. I like a less ornate mandolin, and have always liked the Gibson F-9. But the used prices on F-9s have really gotten stiff over the last few years. You used to find them all the time for $2K, but they are hard to find under $2.5K now. I got my Summit for under $2K, and it's like new.

[lowtone2]

"Yes, right, the woods can be identical, dimensions identical, construction methods identical, but if it doesn't have that Gibson on the peghead, it just won't sound right."

Somehow, I don't get that. The sound is in the mandolin and the player's ears. I've played plenty of Gibsons that didn't have THE sound, but had Gibson on the peg head. Play a bunch and buy something that has THE sound that you are listening for - it's like only playing an F5 because it sounds better than an A5 & you can tell that by the way it looks...

Exactly. Instrument snobbery in bluegrass instruments in general and mandolins in particular is off the charts. Yes, those old gibsons sound great, and there are wonderful new instruments being built, but do you really need to spend $10-20K to have an acceptable axe? I know, a lot of the appeal of the music is the sound of those instruments, but there are other approaches that work very well. Example-Michael Daves with his plywood Harmony guitar and Harmony mandolin. To my ears, they cover the roles pretty well.

[MikeEdgerton]

You do know that Harmony used solid woods on mandolins up through the 60's right?

[MikeEdgerton]

Q - Is my Harmony guitar made from solid woods or laminated ?
A - If your guitar is an acoustic, please read this and tell everyone about it : ALL Harmony acoustics were made from solid woods, even the lowest of the lower grade student model, made from solid birch. Ok, there is some rare exceptions to this rule, for some very late models produced a couple of years before the close of the factory in 1976. Kay was known for mastering the laminated techniques, Harmony for using only solid wooods.
- If your guitar is an electric, most models produced after 1960 (and all cutaway) have a laminated top and/or body. Older "full box" archtops designed from acoustic models still were made from solid woods. An exception to those rules is the late H68 "Artist", built from acoustic H1310 bodies, all solid.

Apparently most guitars too. That doesn't mean they are stellar instruments. Some people can make anything sound good and setup and string choice can be everything.

[lowtone2]

That's kind of off the point. Put another way-great instruments are great, but a good sound is a good sound, regardless of what it cost to build.

Here he talks about his ply True Tone guitar at about 5:50. I think that most of the time he plays something more usual, but it's a good sound (for me). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6_YsSvD-20

[MikeEdgerton]

Example-Michael Daves with his plywood Harmony guitar and Harmony mandolin.

Just trying to set that record straight.

[Charles E.]

There are three Summit mandolins in the classifieds at the moment, two F models and a really good looking A model. It is my understanding that Paul did work for Gibson at one time. The ones that I have played were solid bluegrass mandolins.

[itstooloudMike]

The Summit A100 currently in the classifieds certainly looks like a lot of bluegrass mandolin for not much money. I have no affiliation, and don't need more mandolins. But if I was looking, that one would be on my short list for sure.

[lowtone2]

Just trying to set that record straight.

Gotcha. Old guy rant off now, but watch the lawn.

[MikeEdgerton]

I guarantee you're younger than I am. Get off my lawn.

[Alex Orr]

How poor? You can occasionally find used F9s for under $2k, or at least you could a few years back as I recall. Just my $.02 but other than a couple of Loars and a few others, I've never really been all that impressed with Gibsons. Admittedly, there are a LOT of Gibsons that I haven't played (like, thousands of them), but my experience has left me thinking you pay more for the name on those suckers than than you often do for the sound. I'd take a used Sumi or Northfield any day over a lower end F-style Gibson in the same price range.

[Em Tee]

Flatiron A Style going for just under 1200 in the classifieds. If i was looking for a "poor man's gibson" I'd snatch it up!

https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/122479#122479

[MikeZito]

Just my own personal experience . . . but I learned that if you really want the Gibson sound, then buy a Gibson . . . but play it first. I bought 2 mandolins from a Cafe sponsor last summer, a Gibson F-9 (early 2000's, I think), and a brand new Kentucky KM272. I could find nothing in the Gibson that I was crazy about (trust me, I really wanted to love it), but the 272 was great!

Although Gibson mandolins are a very rare sight in this area, I will continue to keep my eyes open for a good deal - but you can bet that I will hold it in my hands before I lay out a single dollar to own it.

p.s. - The same thing happened with an Eastman, just a few months later . . . so, yes, you can say that I'm a little gun shy these days . . .

[Capt. E]

Keep in mind that the poor man's Gibson might just be a Gibson.

Exactly. Many vintage Gibson models are quite affordable. Look for an A-00 from the middle 1930's or an A-40 made prior to the late 50's. They are often found for well under 1K in great playable shape. I know of more than one professional who has played these.

[Paul Statman]

Hans Brentrup used to build a 'Poor Man's Loar' (PML) model.

[ledbailey]

hey James .I have a 1988 Kentucky 1500 and it sounds great I also suggest they are not cheap as this 1500 is hand made.ledbailey

[Mike Snyder]

The Nashville Flatiron Festival is a huge value. Very good mandolins. I bought one in ‘01 from Morgan Music for $2150 and I see them occasionally in that range. Pretty consistent and completely comparable to the F5G. Check out the Hawthorn. Mike Black has a hand in those, if I’m not mistaken, and he does things right. I’m just really glad to be set for mandolins and not a buyer.

[doublestoptremolo]

The Nashville Flatiron Festival is a huge value. Very good mandolins. I bought one in ‘01 from Morgan Music for $2150 and I see them occasionally in that range. Pretty consistent and completely comparable to the F5G.

One just hit the classifieds: https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/122721#122721

If you're not scared of the repairs (I wouldn't be if I was looking for an F). An F5G with a different name on the headstock.