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Thread: Say "Cheese"?

  1. #1
    Some Ability - No Talent MikeZito's Avatar
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    Default Say "Cheese"?

    I do NOT have a problem with the stories below, but just wanted to get a feel for what others think and/or have experienced.

    Many years ago, when I was playing regularly as a solo artist, I appeared in dozens of charity-type shows where I was one of a many acts that would perform for the evening. On several occasions (unknown to me) the people who were running the event had still cameras and/or video cameras at the shows. I would perform for the night, give away a few cassettes or CD's, and then basically get ready for the next gig. But then, on several occasions, something unexpected would happen . . . friends or co-workers would come up to me and say 'I saw you on television last night' or 'I saw your picture on the internet'. At first I was was very confused, but then I realized that sometimes the organizers of these events would photograph or video tape these shows, and then post movies and/or pictures on cable access television or websites, to help promote their organization.

    During my 8-year sabbatical from music, I had nearly forgotten about this phenomenon until it happened to me again, recently. Just a few hours after playing an open mic at the local VFW, an old school friend sent a link around to more old school friends saying 'Here is a picture of Zito that was taken earlier today' . . . and sure enough, I clicked on the link and there I was on some Facebook page.

    I am fully aware that this sort of thing should be expected in this modern day and age of social media - but the older and uglier I get, the more I cringe when I unexpectedly see myself show up in video or pictures.

    Your take?

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  3. #2
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Say "Cheese"?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeZito View Post
    the older and uglier I get, the more I cringe when I unexpectedly see myself show up in video or pictures.
    I take from that that you are not Barbie or Ken. I see several options:

    #1 get more beautiful
    #2 wear a mask when performing (something from Zorro or Star Wars should do, or you could get paid as some product mascot)
    #3 grow a beard (it worked for ZZ Top)
    #4 make peace with your looks - after all, if the audience can stand it, why shouldn't you? And the Rolling Stones are still performing, I hear.

    My way is a combination of numbers 3 and 4. Especially 4 - it helps to make videos of yourself and put them on YouTube (your capacity for cringing will wear out so fast...)
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    Default Re: Say "Cheese"?

    When you're on stage, you're doing something in public, with everything that implies.

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    Default Re: Say "Cheese"?

    I remember going to an after show house party and someone had videotaped (you can tell how long ago it was!) a telvision show featuring the main act. The tape was playing when the main act - I won't mention who but most people on here will have head of him and he played with someone called Monroe at one time - walked in. He saw the TV and was visibly upset; apparently because he was still wearing the same shirt.

  8. #5
    Registered User George R. Lane's Avatar
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    Default Re: Say "Cheese"?

    In my 30 years as a newspaper photographer I would tell folks "If you don't like the way you look in my photos don't blame me, blame your parents".

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    Default Re: Say "Cheese"?

    Wear a giant eyeball like the Residents.

    It's a public space and event. It should be expected. My issue, as a photogrpaher, is when I was at a Jam and had permission to take photos and did. I posted them to the EVENT on FB so only the people in the event could see them. Someone pinched one of my photos (I didn't mind I don't label them) and used it in an online publication without giving me a photo credit. Not getting the credit for a photo that was deemed good enough for a publication was a problem. I didn't want money, just the acknowledgment. The woman who hosts the jam was great at nurturning my young daughter in her musical development and getting fun pictures was a way to give back to the group.

    For your experience, now you know what to expect. When bands would come to Virginia Tech, many had a contract rider that said photos could only be taken for the first 2 songs (for the newspaper). I guess Susanna Hoff of the Bangles didn't like sweaty photos of her out there either. Control your image if you can or accept it if you can't.

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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Say "Cheese"?

    I was attending a jam in a park outside of Washington DC. In our little group was an amazing old time fiddler, well, more western swing than orthodox old time. He played this wonderful tune that we all backed him on. Anxious to learn that tune i wrote down the name in my little jam notebook I carry.

    The next week, at home, I got on the internet to see if i could find anything on this great old tune. Nothing much. One video, and lots of irrelevant links. The video turned out to be me and this fiddler at the park playing that tune. How the heck it got recorded i cannot figure out. Recorded and posted in under a week. I was more disappointed than paranoid.
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    mandolin slinger Steve Ostrander's Avatar
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    Default Re: Say "Cheese"?

    I think that if the promoter or organizer wants to take PR photos or video of you at the event, then that should be part of the contract. If there is no contract, then I guess you are at their mercy. You can object, but you may not be asked back. As far as IPhone photos taken by the audience and posted to FB, there's not much you can do about that, unless it is enforced by the venue.
    The old show biz adage says "There's no such thing as bad publicity." But if a critic pans you, or you get a bad review on FB, it could be bad for your business and the venue.
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    Registered User George R. Lane's Avatar
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    Default Re: Say "Cheese"?

    Just remember if you are in a public place the photographer doesn't need permission to take your photo. Now publishing it is another question. I always approached the person I had taken a photo of and identified myself and the newspaper I represented. If they made a huge fuss I made it known to my editor and made it his decision. I like to think I was polite to all those people and I did not want to come across as a paparazzi, (I hate those guys, they are leeches). Most of the time people were happy to see their photo in the paper.
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    Registered User Randi Gormley's Avatar
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    Default Re: Say "Cheese"?

    As was pointed out, a public venue is -- well, public. Think of all those random strangers you accidentally photographed when you were traveling and taking snapshots of historic monuments! The problem now seems to be how easy it is to make everything public by posting to social media so it's not just you and the family looking at those things. I think a private venue, or a rehearsal, or a personal family moment does give you some say over what is or is not published, but public events and venues remain fair game -- even if your hair isn't perfect or you're wearing a stained pair of pants or one of your socks has fallen down. I mean, that's what you look like and everybody (except yourself) has seen you, so that's a non-starter!
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    Default Re: Say "Cheese"?

    I think I can go one better....About 25 years ago a well know radio personality here in the DC area set up a jam session one night at an apartment of his and invited a few of us to come by and play some bluegrass, well low and behold he was taping the whole thing and later he was giving away the cassette tapes on a PBS radio station for a donation of $50 or more to the station for their fund raiser, not one bit of credit was given to any of us pickers or did we receive any pay for doing it, it wouldn`t have been so bad if he had of told us what was happening when we showed up to pick but he was doing this without our knowledge, I don`t guess it was as bad as if he was selling the tapes though...

    Willie

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Say "Cheese"?

    If people are willing to look at a picture of me I can abide with that.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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  20. #13
    Some Ability - No Talent MikeZito's Avatar
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    Default Re: Say "Cheese"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie Poole View Post
    ....About 25 years ago a well know radio personality here in the DC area set up a jam session one night at an apartment of his and invited a few of us to come by and play some bluegrass, well low and behold he was taping the whole thing and later he was giving away the cassette tapes on a PBS radio station for a donation of $50 or more to the station for their fund raiser, not one bit of credit was given to any of us ...
    Sorry - but that's just low. When I was in radio we used to have bluegrass jam sessions, but we did them at the radio station, everybody was fully aware that they were being recorded, and then, every so often, we played selected cuts on the air. Free, fully-credited publicity to all the musicians involved, and a library of music that was unique to our station as well. Win-win, all the way around.

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    Default Re: Say "Cheese"?

    Unfortunately one doesn't have image control in these circumstances and I've not yet figured out how to take selfies while playing, so it's usually the unflattering images that end up on the internet.

    The second corollary of that rule is that if somebody posts a video with sound, at that moment you will be:
    a) playing the wrong tune
    b) making weird facial expressions
    c) playing well , but inaudible on the video
    d) taking a sneaky sip from your flask
    Bren

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    Registered User Drew Egerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Say "Cheese"?

    I haven't had too much trouble with this in the music world, but my other hobby (read "money pit") is flying hot air balloons. It's pretty much a given that any time you go out to fly somebody will take and post a picture or video. I can't begin to tell you how many "crash" videos on Youtube are complete non-events. We basically say fly like you are always on video, because you probably are.

    To get back to music, Willie's story reminded me of the "Pizza Tapes" with Grisman, Rice, Garcia. From Wikipedia: "Garcia's copy was stolen by a pizza delivery boy and, not long after, Grisman heard a song on the radio in New York City. Fans started bringing tapes to Grateful Dead shows for autographs, and shortly after, the band confiscated a box of bootleg CDs of the session."
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    Registered User KGreene's Avatar
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    Default Re: Say "Cheese"?

    And the Rolling Stones are still performing, I hear.

    References to the Stones nowadays always cracks me up..... WAIT!! I just walked by the bathroom mirror and saw Keith Richards!
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  25. #17

    Default Re: Say "Cheese"?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeZito View Post
    ... the more I cringe when I unexpectedly see myself show up in video or pictures.

    Your take?
    Well, it could be worse... at least they're using your original sound, instead of overdubbing new sound to make a "shred" like these:


    (or direct link)

    and


    (or direct link)


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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Say "Cheese"?

    Like most others on here,i've done the ocassional ''Google search'' for 'mandolin pics.' & found more than a few of my own photos included,ones that i've posted on the Cafe.
    Here :- https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=le...w=1450&bih=893 There's a pic. on there of my Weber "Fern" & "Beartooth" "A" style together & a photo of my Lebeda mandolins past & current. They must have been cribbed from the Cafe website as they've never been posted anywhere else. I don't mind,but it does beg the question whether permission should be asked ?,
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    en kunnskapssøker James Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Say "Cheese"?

    Must be cool to have notoriety like that.
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  28. #20
    Registered User Tom C's Avatar
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    Default Re: Say "Cheese"?

    It stinks when somebody posts a video of your band playing a tune and it was surely NOT the one you would have chosen for the world to see (My world is small ). Lousy break or band just didn't play is as well, or sound was lousy...etc

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    Default Re: Say "Cheese"?

    I've had the joy of opening up three or four news papers and one well known news site and seeing my picture. The Newark Star-Ledger actually misspelled my name. Thus is the cost of fame. CNN had a story about a place I played and used a picture of a band I was in and USA today wrote a story about the same venue.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

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    Registered User Drew Egerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Say "Cheese"?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    I've had the joy of opening up three or four news papers and one well known news site and seeing my picture. The Newark Star-Ledger actually misspelled my name. Thus is the cost of fame. CNN had a story about a place I played and used a picture of a band I was in and USA today wrote a story about the same venue.
    Mike, I know that feeling all too well. Most people spell my name like yours!
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  31. #23
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Say "Cheese"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Egerton View Post
    Mike, I know that feeling all too well. Most people spell my name like yours!
    I just figured you'd made a mistake when you registered

    They spelled mine like yours.
    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them". These are the words of J. Garber.

  32. #24
    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Say "Cheese"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie Poole View Post
    ...About 25 years ago a well know radio personality here in the DC area set up a jam session one night at an apartment of his and invited a few of us to come by and play some bluegrass, well low and behold he was taping the whole thing and later he was giving away the cassette tapes on a PBS radio station for a donation of $50 or more to the station for their fund raiser, not one bit of credit was given to any of us pickers or did we receive any pay for doing it...
    The people who ran the Fox Hollow Folk Festival near the end of its run, released a series of "live" LP's featuring performances from the festival. It's my understanding -- and I may be wrong, someone correct me if so -- that not all the performers either gave permission or were paid for their contributions to these recordings, which were definitely sold and not given away! At least I heard there was some grumbling from musicians, who definitely were credited (that was the selling point for the albums).

    One of the cuts on one of these LP's was a song from a set I saw live in 1972, I think: John Hartford's Aero-Plain band -- Hartford, Norman Blake, Vassar Clements, Tut Taylor -- with David Bromberg and fiddler Alan Stowell joining in. One of the best sets I've heard, and it would be a shame if Hartford et. al. didn't get paid for the recording. Of course, they might have signed a contract with Fox Hollow that gave the festival rights to any recordings that they might make, but usually musicians get an understanding that the festival won't sell those "archival" live recordings commercially.
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    Registered User Roger Moss's Avatar
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    Default Re: Say "Cheese"?

    You could go the Gwar route. Or maybe even Kiss...

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