choosing a mandolin for playability

[roamer]

My first post here.
I have been cursed with a love of music but no musical aptitude. For two years or more I have been torturing an inexpensive Washburn mandolin and am making progress, but very slowly.
I practice about 45 minutes a day, and my fingers get get sore enough so that I have to stop. About a year ago, I had a luthier adjust the string height and that made learning much easier.
I am wondering if I upgraded if I could get an instrument that was significantly easier to play. How much to make a significant improvement? My ears are so bad, that tone isn't terribly important, but I do love the noise a mandolin makes.
If I do upgrade, I'd like to buy the new mandolin from a place where I could play it, so I don't spend a chunk of money to no good end.
There is a Alvarez A-800 mandolin private sale near here, but don't know if that would be a significant upgrade. I suspect that whatever I buy will need a trip to a luthier for fine tuning.
If you have read this far, you probably have deciphered that I am WAY out of my element here.
Thanks for reading.

Fred

[sunburst]

About the only things about a mandolin itself that affect playability are the neck shape and size (will lesser input from various other physical aspects of the instrument).
If you know what shape and size neck you like, that is what you should shop for. Do you prefer a flat fingerboard or an arched "board"? Do you have a preference for fret size?
If you get the neck and frets you like, then comes the important thing: set up.
Any mandolin that feels good to you (as long as it is not a poorly constructed bottom of the barrel MSO (mandolin-shaped object)) can be set up by a good luthier to play just as easily and just as well as a high priced mandolin.

So, the mandolin itself is chosen for sound and features with little regard for playability because having the mandolin well set up is where playability comes from.

Edited to add:
Many less expensive mandolins will need fret work to be really playable. I consider that repair work rather than set-up work and charge accordingly. Some luthiers may include minor fret work in a set up.

[Mandoplumb]

If you have been playing 45 minutes a day for 2years and still can't play but 45 minutes before your fingers get sore your mandolin needs to be looked at by someone that knows mandolins. There are other things that you can do to help toughen fingers but yours should be getting tougher. Do you know or can you contact someone close to you that plays a mandolin to ask his opinion on what yours needs. The luthier you took yours to must not know mandolins, you need someone who does. As Sunbrust said a Washburn should be able to be made as easily playable as any mandolin.

[roamer]

Sunburst and Mandoplum

Thanks for the information.
There is a bluegrass group in Missoula and I'll go to their next get together and first of all get some opinions on the playability of my mandolin. Then, if it does need further work, I'll try to find a luthier to do it.
I don't think my hands are exceptionally soft. I cut and split firewood and do other handyman type things around the house.
Happy New Year.

[Astro]

What is wrong with you people ? OF COURSE HE NEEDS A NEW MANDOLIN !!!!!!!!!

[colorado_al]

Fred, welcome to the Cafe!
One of the best mandolin shops I've ever been to is in Missoula.
https://gregboyd.com/
I'd go there and take your mandolin with you. Ask them to check your setup to see if it is possible to lower the action (the string height). If this can be done without introducing buzzing, that will help you play without pain and fatigue.
While you're there, play a bunch of other mandolins to see what feels and sounds good to you.
Enjoy!

[roamer]

I like the way you think!

[prairieschooner]

Just for giggles give these guys a call about new mandolins;
https://themandolinstore.com/

[UsuallyPickin]

I owned and played an F model Alvarez for a period of time a few decades ago. I was satisfied with it for what it was. That being a solid student grade instrument. I think I paid 300.00$ used for it at that time. IMO there will be some difference in what you are playing now and the Alvarez. Go play it for yourself and see. Playability can be addressed with a copy of the Meldrum set up book available for free download here on The Café. You can also go with a lighter gauge string ….. Luck R/

[Southern Man]

I have an inexpensive Washburn (M1S-DLTR-A) and I don't really have any problems with the playability. I'm not saying it has the best tone or anything, but the playability is at least pretty good (the player much less good).

I think before you invest in a new mandolin it is very much worth trying to figure out what the issue is with the current mandolin.

[Br1ck]

Sunburst is ever so correct in his assessment of fretwork. Many cheaper mandolins can be made to play well after you commit to $150 for a fret level and crown. But then what you are left with is a great playing, so so sounding mandolin.

I took a hard look at what it was going to take to realize my potential on the mandolin. I bought an Eastman MD 505 as my first mandolin. I would probably still be playing it had I not had access to a variety. There was no major problem with the Eastman. After trying a few others, I liked a slightly bigger neck and larger frets. So I'd say liking a neck is a big part of liking a mandolin.

Then there was that old bugaboo, sound. Couldn't get over the tone of pricier mandolins, primarily a richer sound no matter the voicing of each builder. So I bought my Silverangel, quite inexpensive in the scheme of things, but well over the 1K used threshold. So I now had sound and the playability I was looking for, so I played more.

Then on a whim I bought an import on closeout. It happened to be an F style. I bought it as a training ground to hone my setup abilities. Got it playing real well and it sounded pretty decent. I found myself playing it a lot. Egads! could it be the scroll? I had to face the fact that this shallow soul is, well, shallow. Looked at very plain F style mandolins, in the used market $2K and up. Mostly up. So I built one. So here I am at the point of liking the playability and aesthetics plus the emotional attachment of having created it (huge, a topic in itself) and the result is playing even more.

This was a two year process. I don't know if a great setup alone would have done the trick. Practice a lot and you get better.

But pain is not what you want. Telling you to buy an Eastman 315 well set up from a Cafe sponsor, i fear, will only lead you down the upgrade path, as it has so many before. As you progress you will want better tools. That is just the way it is.

[mandroid]

Set up is all about play-ability .. Ones I played a lot got even better when re-fretted ,
because the fingerboard was leveled while the frets were removed..

[Tom Haywood]

To say it all a little differently, what makes a mandolin truly comfortable to play is a setup that matches your style of playing. Getting that requires finding someone who is good at setting up mandolins. The way you play will probably change over time, so adjusting the setup might be important in the future. Generally speaking, a better quality mandolin can be set up and adjusted better than a lesser quality mandolin. Generally speaking, the price of the mandolin is a good indicator of the quality. I say "generally speaking" because those statements could be wrong about any specific instrument. The two stores mentioned above do specialize in mandolins. Purchasing from such a store likely will result in getting a mandolin that has been well set up and that can be fine tuned in the future. The local sale Alvarez might be just fine, or it might have issues. Sounds like the Washburn may need to have the nut slots lowered.

[J.Albert]

OP...

You didn't tell us where you are but it's within range of Missoula MT, right?

If that's the case, get yourself to Greg Boyd's at the earliest opportunity.

They can check your mandolin and tell you what it needs.

And you can play some very nice ones while you're there, too.

[Mandobart]

Don't know how far from Missoula you are, but the second best thing you can do is check out Greg Boyd. The most important thing to do is meet other mandolin players. You may not be into bluegrass (yet) but meeting other players in person, talking and playing is the most important thing to getting off on the right foot. Check out this link.

[Stacey Morris]

Thanks for the link to Sue Malcolm. What a great concept, and what a wonderful person Sue must be to do that for others.

[roamer]

I believe I met Greg Boyd at a bluegrass jam in Missoula at Ruby's Motel several months ago.Since then, we've moved farther away from Missoula, but there is another jam Jan 10and I think I might go over and go to Greg's shop and then to the jam.
Living near Eureka, MT, but are in the process of moving to Choteau.
Liking bluegrass was partially what got me sucked into this mandolin thing, and now it's taken on a life of it's own. Bought a Rich Delgrosso book the other day.

[Toni Schula]

My first post here.
I have been cursed with a love of music but no musical aptitude. For two years or more I have been torturing an inexpensive Washburn mandolin and am making progress, but very slowly.
I practice about 45 minutes a day, and my fingers get get sore enough so that I have to stop. About a year ago, I had a luthier adjust the string height and that made learning much easier.
I am wondering if I upgraded if I could get an instrument that was significantly easier to play. How much to make a significant improvement? My ears are so bad, that tone isn't terribly important, but I do love the noise a mandolin makes.
If I do upgrade, I'd like to buy the new mandolin from a place where I could play it, so I don't spend a chunk of money to no good end.
There is a Alvarez A-800 mandolin private sale near here, but don't know if that would be a significant upgrade. I suspect that whatever I buy will need a trip to a luthier for fine tuning.
If you have read this far, you probably have deciphered that I am WAY out of my element here.
Thanks for reading.

Fred

Here are my 2 cents.

Maybe you suffer from the same problem as I did after starting playing: my mandolin had a very high action, actually it never had a setup done. So I had to push down very hard with the fretting fingers. When I changed to an instrument with decent action, I sticked my gorilla grip for years. Even now, decades after I recognised that a well setup decent mandolin just needs I light touch I fall back to the old habbit in faster/harder parts...
So check and see if you might press way harder than needed, and if so you can hopefully 'unlearn' this faster than me.

This said, of course a better mandolin is more fun to play ;-)

[RustyMadd]

If you're serious about playing the mandolin and you derive pleasure from the pursuit, then by all means make a special trip to the best mandolin store you have available to you and do sit and play every one you can until one screams, "you're not leaving without me."

Then you will have no excuses that really fool yourself. Maybe they'll fool others, but you will know any issues you might experience aren't because of a poor quality instrument. Your music will improve in both your ears and the ears of others simply because the tone is better and you enjoy playing so much more. And there it is, a win-win situation. In fact, you just might actually have to buy a new mandolin just to face yourself in the morning everyday. It might even be argued that it is your civic duty to purchase a new mandolin. You might even owe it to God and country?

I don't know. How good are your argument skills?
Blessings

[pops1]

A few months ago I saw a mandolin for sale at a large store with a reputation for good setups. I called and ask if they would play it over the phone so I could hear it. They said they could make a short video and email me. I listened to the video and decided to but the mandolin. It sold a half hour before I could call back. A short time later it was for sale here, I bought it. When I got it I liked it alot, but thought it played hard. It was not bad, but did slightly bother my fingers after a couple hours. As a long time player this shouldn't be. With some measuring I discovered the fret level left out the first fret and even tho the strings above the first fret were correct it played hard especially on frets 2-5. Most likely why the last owner sold it so quick. I lowered the first fret, then the strings at the nut to correspond to the new first fret height. Plays like a dream now. That said

A good setup is everything, get it setup and enjoy it. Any mandolin can be made to play well buy for sound and setup for fun playing.

[WELSrev]

Living near Eureka, MT, but are in the process of moving to Choteau.

Since you are moving to the eastern side of the mountains you should get to know the folks in Helena that play. Good group of people there. You could also plan on going to Winter Pick in Gardiner, MT the last weekend in January. What a good time that is. Unfortunately I can't get there this year. You will meet a lot of Montana musicians there. Very welcoming, lots of jamming, great folks, good food. Let me know if you want some contacts.

[Jim Garber]

I agree that proper set up is one important key but I also agree with posters above that the OP should have a teacher or more experienced mandolinist watch how he plays. I know that some beginners press the strings overly hard even on a well set up mandolin. You should only press as hard as you need to produce the proper notes cleanly. Any other pressure is wasted and will cause problems with the muscles in your hands eventually.

[roamer]

I agree that proper set up is one important key but I also agree with posters above that the OP should have a teacher or more experienced mandolinist watch how he plays. I know that some beginners press the strings overly hard even on a well set up mandolin. You should only press as hard as you need to produce the proper notes cleanly. Any other pressure is wasted and will cause problems with the muscles in your hands eventually.

Thanks for that tip. Paid attention to how hard I was pressing on the strings, and discovered I was scrunching down quite hard. I consciously every day now, pressing just hard enough to get the correct sound, but no harder. This morning, over an hour on the mandolin, and no sore fingers.
Thanks a lot.

Fred

[roamer]

Since you are moving to the eastern side of the mountains you should get to know the folks in Helena that play. Good group of people there. You could also plan on going to Winter Pick in Gardiner, MT the last weekend in January. What a good time that is. Unfortunately I can't get there this year. You will meet a lot of Montana musicians there. Very welcoming, lots of jamming, great folks, good food. Let me know if you want some contacts.

Thanks for the info. Won't be able to make the Gardiner jam, due to moving right now. I have been to some of the jams in Helena at the Staggering Ox. Met my better half (way better) there almost a decade ago.

[roamer]

A few months ago I saw a mandolin for sale at a large store with a reputation for good setups. I called and ask if they would play it over the phone so I could hear it. They said they could make a short video and email me. I listened to the video and decided to but the mandolin. It sold a half hour before I could call back. A short time later it was for sale here, I bought it. When I got it I liked it alot, but thought it played hard. It was not bad, but did slightly bother my fingers after a couple hours. As a long time player this shouldn't be. With some measuring I discovered the fret level left out the first fret and even tho the strings above the first fret were correct it played hard especially on frets 2-5. Most likely why the last owner sold it so quick. I lowered the first fret, then the strings at the nut to correspond to the new first fret height. Plays like a dream now. That said

A good setup is everything, get it setup and enjoy it. Any mandolin can be made to play well buy for sound and setup for fun playing.

The tricky part is finding someone that can do a good set up.