F style tuner swap

[Kimb]

Can I swap out Schaller tuners for Waverly’s without modification of the headstock and is it truly worth the expense? The bass side Schaller has developed two rough spots in the gears and I’m fearful of eventually breaking the buttons. The mandolin is a 1988.

[MikeEdgerton]

There are two things you need to know before you buy new tuners. The dimension post to post (from center to center) and if the worm gear is above (worm over) or below (worm under) the cog. The mandolin being a 1988 isn't an issue, it might be better to know the make and even better post some pictures of the tuners from the back. I changed my Gibson Grover tuners to Waverly's last year. You also might need to change the bushings in the headstock. The Waverly tuners are not real tolerant of improperly drilled holes either. Take a look at this thread:

https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/s...ed-the-trigger

The Waverly tuners are worm under. Schaller makes them both ways. The Waverly dimensions are at the bottom of this page.

[Ray(T)]

Just to add my experience to what Mike says, Waverleys are clearly better engineered than the standard Schallers but whether they would be any better fitted to your particular mandolin, is debatable. I have Waverleys on one mandolin, Schaller on another two - I even have Alessi on another. The Waverleys are nice but the Schallers work well enough that, although I could easily afford a set, I wouldn't be tempted to change them.

You say that they've developed rough spots. Is that with the strings on and how do they feel with the strings off? I'd certainly try cleaning and lubing them before considering changing them.

[George R. Lane]

You might want to check out the Rubner tuners. I just put a set om my Yellowstone and the work great. They replaced a set of Grovers.

Here is a link to their website; https://www.rubnertuners.com/

[HoGo]

Or get the new Schallers "Grandtune", folks refer they are as good as Waverlies and perhaps even the screwholes willl align with old Schallers. There are drawings on Schaller page.
But I agree that perhaps lubingwill help. I would also consider using lapping compound and turning them with handdrill (the buttons fit into metric 13mm nut socket) then washing and lubing. I did this with a cet of old tuners that were stiffer than I liked and it worked. SOmeone posted that Mike Kemnitzer does this with Schallers before he uses them on his mandolins.

[Kimb]

Fellow mandoliners- thank you for your responses and information especially the link. I am going to lube first to see if that solves the problem. It is a Carlson signed Gibson F5L and my “keeper” so I want to do it right. I will let you know how it turns out. Thanks again!

[MikeEdgerton]

If it's an F5L it is a worm under tuner. The Waverly's should fit but you might have to change the bushings.

[Ivan Kelsall]

I agree with Ray - My Weber & Lebeda mandolins both have Schallers & they work superbly well,so well in fact that i'd never think of replacing them unless they failed completely. My Ellis "A" style has even less expensive Gotoh's on it & they too work superbly well.

Rather than replacing the Schallers with Waverly's,fit a new set of Schallers,that way you don't (shouldn't ?) need to replace the bushes in the headstock,it would be a straight forward swap over. In the meantime,you might remove the tuners & examine them to see if 'whatever's' wrong,can be put right before forking out for a new set,
Ivan

[O. Apitius]

Can I swap out Schaller tuners for Waverly’s without modification of the headstock and is it truly worth the expense? The bass side Schaller has developed two rough spots in the gears and I’m fearful of eventually breaking the buttons. The mandolin is a 1988.

Although the post hole spacing is the same for Waverly and Schaller (some other brands as well) the bushing hole diameter is larger* for the older style Schallers. This means that the existing holes would have to be filled and drilled in order to use the Waverly bushings. Re-using the old Schaller bushings would not be recommended to get the best function of the Waverlys. Same goes for the newer Schaller GrandTune tuners which are demonstrably the best mass produced tuners available today.

*Your F5-L may have the traditional stamped bushings installed so the bushing holes would have to be enlarged for the Waverly cast bushings.

The older style Schaller tuners were and are a good tuner if installed and maintained properly. I suggest you remove the tuners and inspect them for proper assembly and worn Mylar shims. I had a fellow bring in an F-5L with tuner problems and it turned out that the bass side set were assembled incorrectly which caused premature wear to the worm and cog due to misalignment. The photo below shows how I found them. One side is assembled correctly and the other side not.



Luckily, I had a set of NOS matching tuners and was able to replace them with an identical set.

Sometimes, all it takes is to disassemble the tuners and give them a good clean and lube plus Mylar shim replacements (if needed) and then re-assembling them correctly to make them work like new (or better) again. A little of the blue Loc-Tite on the cog screws is helpful to keep them from loosening which can adversely affect the tuner's function.
I don't know where or if replacement shims are available anywhere. I just keep a bunch of tuner parts that I have acquired over the years. Schaller does seem pretty helpful so if you need replacement shims, it would be worth contacting them.

[MikeEdgerton]

I know that Stewmac stocks oversized bushings for Waverly guitar tuners. Do they have the same for the mandolin tuners?