Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 34 of 34

Thread: The "Florida" ???

  1. #26
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,863

    Default Re: The "Florida" ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Pittsburgh Bill View Post
    But with no frets! That was what really spiked my curiousity.
    Again, it's just for the look and has no other affect. It's a nod to tradition.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  2. #27
    Mandolin user MontanaMatt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Bozeman, MT
    Posts
    1,252

    Default Re: The "Florida" ???

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    Again, it's just for the look and has no other affect. It's a nod to tradition.
    Not according to Siminoff...Found the mention on Roger Siminof's page...it is a L.Loar innovation of adding a fingerboard extension similar to that of the violin, to avoid damping of the systems vibration.
    http://siminoff.net/damping-prevention/
    Innovation number 4
    2007 Weber Custom Elite "old wood"
    2017 Ratliff R5 Custom #1148
    Several nice old Fiddles
    2007 Martin 000-15S 12 fret Auditorium-slot head
    Deering Classic Open Back
    Too many microphones

    BridgerCreekBoys.com

  3. The following members say thank you to MontanaMatt for this post:


  4. #28
    Mandolin user MontanaMatt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Bozeman, MT
    Posts
    1,252

    Default Re: The "Florida" ???

    Here is a quote from a previous Florida thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Don MacRostie View Post
    I know what you mean, but as a builder and a student of tone, I believe that that extension is important in shaping that "Loar" tone, and I have two reasons.

    1) I built a mandolin many years ago that the player thought he needed 36 frets to play the violin repertoire. So I made the extension removable. It had two pins with detents that solidly inserted and snapped as the extension reached home. That mandolin was noticeably different in tone with the extension on and with it off. On it was brighter, off it was deeper.
    2) I had a intrerfarometry scan done on a mandolin, also quite a few years ago, and was surprised to see what all vibrates. The extension is very active in many modes, and is an important component in the overall tone.

    It also stands to reason that the material of the extension (BW) contributes. So, if Gibson is interested in changing the sound of their F-5's, by all means remove the Floridian peninsula.

    Don

    http:/www.reddiamondmandolins.com
    2007 Weber Custom Elite "old wood"
    2017 Ratliff R5 Custom #1148
    Several nice old Fiddles
    2007 Martin 000-15S 12 fret Auditorium-slot head
    Deering Classic Open Back
    Too many microphones

    BridgerCreekBoys.com

  5. The following members say thank you to MontanaMatt for this post:


  6. #29
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Howell, NJ
    Posts
    26,863

    Default Re: The "Florida" ???

    I think you're confusing this a little. Raising the fingerboard extension (the Florida) off the top stops the fingerboard from damping the top because the fingerboard doesn't attach to the top. Violin fingerboards are raised above the top. That's what Loar was doing. Having a Florida does nothing other than that.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  7. #30
    Mandolin user MontanaMatt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Bozeman, MT
    Posts
    1,252

    Default Re: The "Florida" ???

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    I think you're confusing this a little. Raising the fingerboard extension (the Florida) off the top stops the fingerboard from damping the top because the fingerboard doesn't attach to the top. Violin fingerboards are raised above the top. That's what Loar was doing. Having a Florida does nothing other than that.
    Are you saying I'm confused, or Don's confused?
    It is vital to the tone of a violin...Don's study indicates it's contribution to mandolin tone.
    2007 Weber Custom Elite "old wood"
    2017 Ratliff R5 Custom #1148
    Several nice old Fiddles
    2007 Martin 000-15S 12 fret Auditorium-slot head
    Deering Classic Open Back
    Too many microphones

    BridgerCreekBoys.com

  8. #31

    Default Re: The "Florida" ???

    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaMatt View Post
    Not according to Siminoff...Found the mention on Roger Siminof's page...it is a L.Loar innovation of adding a fingerboard extension similar to that of the violin, to avoid damping of the systems vibration.
    http://siminoff.net/damping-prevention/
    Innovation number 4
    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaMatt View Post
    Here is a quote from a previous Florida thread
    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaMatt View Post
    Are you saying I'm confused, or Don's confused?
    Well Matt, I read the Siminoff article as well as the quote from Don MacRostie. I'm not saying I can wrap my head around the principle or that I'm a believer (yet).
    There seems to be little doubt though that those two guys believe that the existence of the extension (Florida) effects tone. Those are two guys whose opinions I highly respect.
    "I play BG so that's what I can talk intelligently about." A line I loved and pirated from Mandoplumb

  9. #32
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Va
    Posts
    2,573

    Default Re: The "Florida" ???

    Quote Originally Posted by FLATROCK HILL View Post
    Well Matt, I read the Siminoff article as well as the quote from Don MacRostie. I'm not saying I can wrap my head around the principle or that I'm a believer (yet).
    There seems to be little doubt though that those two guys believe that the existence of the extension (Florida) effects tone. Those are two guys whose opinions I highly respect.
    I would have to see it to believe it. A fingerboard sticking out over the body of a fiddle or mandolin change the tone of the instrument?

  10. #33
    Registered User sblock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Redwood City, CA
    Posts
    2,335

    Default Re: The "Florida" ???

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidKOS View Post
    Very nice playing, thanks! But I did have these observations to make after watching:

    An F5 mandolin has a significantly longer neck to the body. Those classical 'bowlback' mandolins, with their shorter necks, ~13" scales, and fretboard extensions up over the sound hole, seldom go past the 24th fret! An F5 style mandolin with a full Florida, by contrast, has 29 frets. I've been questioning the musical utility of the last 6 or so frets on the F5, and none of the bowlbacks that I saw even have notes that high!

    I listened to several of these recordings (not all), but the highest note that I heard on them was the very high D, played at the 22nd fret. That particular can be played pretty cleanly, with practice, on both a bowlback and many an F5, even ones that already have a scooped extension, or those that come with a shorter 'modern-style' fretboard extension, like Weber F5. These F5 tend to have about 24 playable frets. But the G or A above that? These sound terrible, and they are basically unplayable, even with light gauge strings!!

    So, I remain unconvinced that mandolins need more than 24 frets. 26, maybe. But certainly not 29!! I am still waiting to hear the 29th fret played convincingly on any kind of mandolin at all. And even Dave Apollon's tricked-out gimmick Florida extension was rigged to get him easier access to the 28th fret, not to the 29th. And remember -- that was strictly a gimmick!

  11. #34
    Mandolin user MontanaMatt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Bozeman, MT
    Posts
    1,252

    Default Re: The "Florida" ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandoplumb View Post
    I would have to see it to believe it. A fingerboard sticking out over the body of a fiddle or mandolin change the tone of the instrument?
    Just hold a fiddle by the shoulder and thump the fingerboard, it sounds like a marimba block, very able to contribute to the melange of vibrating wood pieces creating the blended tone. There is special luthier attention to the backs of fiddle fingerboards, and their resonance. Part of the tone voodoo.

    The Florida (scooped) on my Ratliff has a tone when thumped, this leads me to deduce that it vibrates along with the rest of the deal. The overall tone is a sum of the parts.
    2007 Weber Custom Elite "old wood"
    2017 Ratliff R5 Custom #1148
    Several nice old Fiddles
    2007 Martin 000-15S 12 fret Auditorium-slot head
    Deering Classic Open Back
    Too many microphones

    BridgerCreekBoys.com

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •