What exactly is the purpose"? One of my instruments has this extended piece with no frets to scoop. It is just there with no reason that I can conjure up in my limited knowledge of mandolin construction.
What exactly is the purpose"? One of my instruments has this extended piece with no frets to scoop. It is just there with no reason that I can conjure up in my limited knowledge of mandolin construction.
Big Muddy EM8 solid body (Mike Dulak's final EM8 build)
Kentucky KM-950
Weber Gallatin A Mandola "D hole"
Rogue 100A (current campfire tool & emergency canoe paddle)
If there are no frets it's there as a nod to tradition in design. Some super human individuals were actually able to use the notes on that thing. Dave Apollon was known to use it although I believe he had one fret removed so he could actually fit his finger in there. Keep in mind the F5 was originally developed as an instrument to play classical music.
"It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
--M. Stillion
"Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
--J. Garber
But then there is the aesthetic value to be considered.
I had a very late night, grape fueled, discussion about why it was anything more than decorative. If you look at the design, the scroll becomes a rather bulbous appendage with great visual weight having very little to offset that for visual “balance” the slight (often missed) return on the treble point in combination with the “Florida” give a little artistic balance. Anyway, that’s my story and I’m sticking to it!
Timothy F. Lewis
"If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett
Tim, why don't they call it "The U.P.?" It looks as much like that as it does like Florida... or does it...??
"The paths of experimentation twist and turn through mountains of miscalculations, and often lose themselves in error and darkness!"
--Leslie Daniel, "The Brain That Wouldn't Die."
Some tunes: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCa1...SV2qtug/videos
It's traditional. Although the modern redesign of it is very appealing without the limitations.
It's said to be necessary for some pickers to access extra high notes. I'd like to see someone play a tune there and have it be recognizable.
It can be in the way of picking over the end of the fretboard, resulting in a sounding board for picks to click on.
To build one and scoop it during the build is the strangest notion for me but ymmw
Mostly it's something for cafe folk to fret over
The U.P. is more East/West oriented, (Upper Peninsula) of the state of Michigan, Florida is more a flaccid member pointing “down” the body of the instrument. I suppose it might as well be called the “Dead mackerel” but, it’s more decorative (Stan Jay like) moniker.
It could be called a “beaver tail” or, “Lappet” (like the tails on a bishops’s mitre) for whatever it’s worth... I think The alliterative Mr. Jay might have liked that, but, I digress.
David, no apology necessary!
I don’t think there is anyplace else on the planet capable of claiming a region known as a “U.P.” It’s the Upper Peninsula of the state of Michigan.
Timothy F. Lewis
"If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett
For certain pieces the classical mandolinist needs those upper range frets. I'm in that camp, I want at least one mandolin with as many frets as possible, as if to play any violin literature.
However many modern (typically folk or BG style) players tend to pick very close to or over the fingerboard, and get what is called "pick click"; scooping, lowering, having inlaid fake frets, or the full-on "Florida-ectomy" are common solutions.
Not quite. David Appollon gets up to the 22nd fret -- high high D -- in that piece, which is in the key of Dm. But no higher. In fact, he's not even into the thinner part of the Florida! The infamous Florida on the Gibson F5 goes all the way up to the 29th fret, but those last seven frets of it are virtually playable, as most of us realize. Now, mandolins with scooped extensions, or those that come with somewhat shorter fretboards (like Webers, 'modern' Northfields, etc.) often go up to 24 (or even 26 frets), and still avoid producing pick click issues. And they could all be used for that Apollon piece, in principle.
What is the need for frets above 24 (high high E), I ask?
I can't recall where, but I remember reading that there is a damping function of the finger board extension (a.k.a. The Florida)... thoughts from those initiated in the acoustic voodoo arts welcome!
2007 Weber Custom Elite "old wood"
2017 Ratliff R5 Custom #1148
Several nice old Fiddles
2007 Martin 000-15S 12 fret Auditorium-slot head
Deering Classic Open Back
Too many microphones
BridgerCreekBoys.com
Here's a picture of Dave Apollon's 1935 F5 from the Mandolin Archives. Note the missing fret on the Florida so he could actually use on of those frets way up there.
"It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
--M. Stillion
"Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
--J. Garber
I’ve seen Chris Thile play up there. And it was clear and loud and had great tone. Smart Alec little ^¥]¥{¥[¥> ***
JBovier ELS; Epiphone MM-50 VN; Epiphone MM-40L; Gretsch New Yorker G9310; Washburn M1SDLB;
Fender Nashville Deluxe Telecaster; Squier Modified Vintage Cabronita Telecaster; Gretsch 5420T; Fender Tim Armstrong Hellcat: Washburn Banjo B9; Ibanez RB 5string; Ibanez RB 4 string bass
Pedalboard for ELS: Morley Cry baby Miniwah - Tuner - EHX Soul Food Overdrive - EHX Memory Toy analog Delay
Fender Blues Jr Tweed; Fender Greta;
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...ludes+mandolin
Just listen to these players.
2007 Weber Custom Elite "old wood"
2017 Ratliff R5 Custom #1148
Several nice old Fiddles
2007 Martin 000-15S 12 fret Auditorium-slot head
Deering Classic Open Back
Too many microphones
BridgerCreekBoys.com
Played a Rattlesnake mandolin built based on Loar specs a couple weeks ago. It was an awesome sounding and playing mandolin, but I’ve gotten so used to playing without one of those that the click and the feel of hitting the extension was maddening. My first mando had one, and I don’t recall it bothering me back then, but I didn’t know any better. Would I adjust technique to make it work if I had to? Of course, but count me firmly in Sam Bush’s camp...
Chuck
Allen Hopkins
Gibsn: '54 F5 3pt F2 A-N Custm K1 m'cello
Natl Triolian Dobro mando
Victoria b-back Merrill alumnm b-back
H-O mandolinetto
Stradolin Vega banjolin
Sobell'dola Washburn b-back'dola
Eastmn: 615'dola 805 m'cello
Flatiron 3K OM
Allen has a point...
Just to clarify, the Rattlesnake was an exceptional mandolin I’d be proud to own. It’s exceedingly better than my playing, and not quite as good as the Loar I played that day, but certainly closer to it than the 168,000 price difference. Olin Davis is building some exceptional instruments, much respect!
I played the Loar after the Rattlesnake, and was already adapting to avoid the click, but also didn’t get after the Loar like I did the RS. I could have bought the RS if I’d marked it up a little, but would rather have a nice mountain house (with a nice porch upon which I’d pick my Silverangel) than the Loar, as would my wife, which is key here...
Chuck
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