No Power Tool Mandolin

[HoGo]

Here is link to the video:
https://youtu.be/Ki8tt-VjwqI
he tells it cost some $8 for a set.
Try to find out what brand it is. Perhaps you will find the same set under various brands - the shape of handle, package and material (ash handle) will show it.

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

Here is link to the video:
https://youtu.be/Ki8tt-VjwqI
he tells it cost some $8 for a set.
Try to find out what brand it is. Perhaps you will find the same set under various brands - the shape of handle, package and material (ash handle) will show it.

Thanks, right after I reread your post, I found it. It was called workzone and it is sold at Aldi's but apparently it is a seasonal product and nobody has seen to find the same exact ones. However, I will take pops1's advice and go for some ebay ones. They seem to be great steel and most are made in the USA, or Germany. They just need some fixing up to do. However, I would find it helpful if you or pops1 know the ideal size chisel(s). I am unsure if I need more than one or not.

[HoGo]

Thanks, right after I reread your post, I found it. It was called workzone and it is sold at Aldi's but apparently it is a seasonal product and nobody has seen to find the same exact ones. However, I will take pops1's advice and go for some ebay ones. They seem to be great steel and most are made in the USA, or Germany. They just need some fixing up to do. However, I would find it helpful if you or pops1 know the ideal size chisel(s). I am unsure if I need more than one or not.

I would go for 1", 1/2" and 1/4", that should cover most uses. I also like one 1/8" tiny chisel that I bent into "dogleg" but bevel down for cutting inside scrolls and other tight spaces. I made that from old chisel from children set, poor steel but easily honed.
I'll try to take pics of my arsenal of old homemade tools for your inspiration...

BTW. looking around net for chisels I found the exact set I was given
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Amtech-E060...NMH4V51T2DDG12
STAY AWAY FROM THESE!!!! POOR CRAP is weak name for them. Just look at the finish. The steel is barely harder than brass. Actually I made various one-off tools out of them - I bent 1/2" one around 1" dowel into hook for prying/pulling something....

[Marty Jacobson]

+1 for Narex chisels. They are excellent, pro-quality tools which will last a lifetime. And they cost under $10 apiece. Not bad for something you could hand down to your grandkids in perfect working order.
https://www.amazon.com/Narex-Republi.../dp/B00GPC74ZQ

Also check this out: http://www.dunwellguitar.com/FingerPlanes/MyDesign.htm
You can make blades out of an old file in a pinch.

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

+1 for Narex chisels. They are excellent, pro-quality tools which will last a lifetime. And they cost under $10 apiece. Not bad for something you could hand down to your grandkids in perfect working order.
https://www.amazon.com/Narex-Republi.../dp/B00GPC74ZQ

Also check this out: http://www.dunwellguitar.com/FingerPlanes/MyDesign.htm
You can make blades out of an old file in a pinch.

Thank you. Would it work to only buy one 1/4" chisel? I understand that it will take more time, but would it still work? Also, which is more important, a finger plane, or a block plane? Or will I need both? I have a pretty small budget so I really need to spend my money wisely.

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

If you can find used old chisels from ebay or any source they should be a higher quality than what you will buy at any discount store selling steel from China. Decide what you are going to make, the tools you need, and look for them used. You will have to sharpen new chisels any way. I am not saying new chisels are not good, because there are good new chisels, they are not cheap. And they are not made in China.

Hey pops1, I understand you are much more experienced than me, and I really should listen to you, but I just can't force myself to believe that a pack of Stanley chisels could possibly be bad. I know brand names are deceiving, but it's just hard to believe. And China is a huge country, and I don't think everything they make is necessarily bad quality.

[dadsaster]

Hey pops1, I understand you are much more experienced than me, and I really should listen to you, but I just can't force myself to believe that a pack of Stanley chisels could possibly be bad. I know brand names are deceiving, but it's just hard to believe. And China is a huge country, and I don't think everything they make is necessarily bad quality.

Modern Stanley chisel are pretty poor quality on average. Their sweetheart line is okay but the quality of steel has declined. I prefer modern japanese chisels or pre-60s American chisels. Ocassionally you can find some good Swedish chisels. I've found that the Stanleys take a lot of work just to get the backs flat and a good bevel on them. Even after they are setup properly they tend to go dull quickly when working with harder woods.

As for "no powertools", in woodworking school out first exercise was to make a "perfect board". We had to saw the board out by hand and using only hand tools, get it dead flat and square on all six sides. School was 8-10 hours a day six days a week. Most students spent at least 3 full days getting the board right. One poor soul left his board on his bench without proper air flow and had it cup overnight.

IMO there is a big difference between "no powertools" and "light powertools". You can get a lot of enjoyment from hand graduating a top, hand carving a scroll etc. You will basically just tire yourself out trying to mill all your parts by hand.

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

Modern Stanley chisel are pretty poor quality on average. Their sweetheart line is okay but the quality of steel has declined. I prefer modern japanese chisels or pre-60s American chisels. Ocassionally you can find some good Swedish chisels. I've found that the Stanleys take a lot of work just to get the backs flat and a good bevel on them. Even after they are setup properly they tend to go dull quickly when working with harder woods.

As for "no powertools", in woodworking school out first exercise was to make a "perfect board". We had to saw the board out by hand and using only hand tools, get it dead flat and square on all six sides. School was 8-10 hours a day six days a week. Most students spent at least 3 full days getting the board right. One poor soul left his board on his bench without proper air flow and had it cup overnight.

IMO there is a big difference between "no powertools" and "light powertools". You can get a lot of enjoyment from hand graduating a top, hand carving a scroll etc. You will basically just tire yourself out trying to mill all your parts by hand.

I am not going no powertools just because I want to, but because I don't have a bucketload of money, or space to spend on powertools, and because I don't have any access to them otherwise. Now I get why pops1 said what he did, thank you.

[dadsaster]

Consider building a foot-powered scroll saw. They don't take up a lot of space (I use mine at the dining room table), there are pretty inexpensive to make, and it should save you a lot of time. A good quality rip saw is a must if you are starting with lumber.

[HoGo]

I am not going no powertools just because I want to, but because I don't have a bucketload of money, or space to spend on powertools, and because I don't have any access to them otherwise. Now I get why pops1 said what he did, thank you.

You don't have to have bucketload of money. The Schaller tuners and set of GHS strings for my first mandolin probably cost more then all the rest of the mandolin, including tools, together. Talk to folks around you (you don't live in desert) and you'll likely find out that many of them either have some powertools or can advice you how to get access to some, perhaps friendly local joiner/carpenter can help you with small five-minute jobs for bandsaw or jointer like cutting out body blocks, cutting neck profile or jointing top/back halves for nice word or a six-pack. I even had five tailpieces nickel plated for free when I knocked on door of large plating company and politely asked - the foreman just took them from me and week later I came to get them prepared to pay and he just waved his hand told me just that such small order is now worth the time it takes to calculate the invoice...
I'd say, where there's a will there's a way...
There is no violin making school in my whole country, I had no access to internet when I started and EXTREMELY limited budget as well. I had to learn from my own mistakes... Joiner at my fathers work gave him a bag of hide glue granules for me and told him "violin makers use this, you just have to heat it to use..." Well, I heated it till it smoked but couldn't make a glue out of it... the whole appartment building was stinking. REALLY! (don't laugh, I was barely a kid back then) Huge was the discovery that you had to soak it in water before use.... My first mandolin drawings were based upon tracings from still TV screen (not even flat back then and VCR picture was quite fuzzy and ) and scaled up to scale of old broken taterbug mandolin I had at hands... total disaster, I couldn't bend a rib as it was too thick and I just tried to cook it in water for bending as I had no bending iron. I thought the scroll is all hollow and ribs bent all the way inside scroll... I had to reinvent most of the things you can learn in one or two clicks on internet but I continued the fight for almost 10 years carving small items, repairing "lost case" instruments etc. and finally finished my first mandolin in 2001...
My original workshop was small table in corner of basement not large enough for guitar and perhaps 10-15 square feet of space in front of table, one box with tools and hooks on the wall above the table. I did the french polishing at hoem on my school desk...
My current workshop is 6'x12' and part of it is occupied by stash of wood, skis and various raw materials. And I still use most of the crude tools I made 20 years ago.
Just for inspiration, here is the thread where I showed pics of my first effort...
https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/s...?1760-My-first
too bad the pics were all hosted my old server account, I could probably find them somewhere in my computer if you wish.

[Inklings]

Adrian, what a great example of "where there's a will, there's a way," indeed! It was really interesting reading about your experiences. Have you written a blog, or memoir, of how you got started? It is really interesting!

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

You don't have to have bucketload of money. The Schaller tuners and set of GHS strings for my first mandolin probably cost more then all the rest of the mandolin, including tools, together. Talk to folks around you (you don't live in desert) and you'll likely find out that many of them either have some powertools or can advice you how to get access to some, perhaps friendly local joiner/carpenter can help you with small five-minute jobs for bandsaw or jointer like cutting out body blocks, cutting neck profile or jointing top/back halves for nice word or a six-pack. I even had five tailpieces nickel plated for free when I knocked on door of large plating company and politely asked - the foreman just took them from me and week later I came to get them prepared to pay and he just waved his hand told me just that such small order is now worth the time it takes to calculate the invoice...
I'd say, where there's a will there's a way...
There is no violin making school in my whole country, I had no access to internet when I started and EXTREMELY limited budget as well. I had to learn from my own mistakes... Joiner at my fathers work gave him a bag of hide glue granules for me and told him "violin makers use this, you just have to heat it to use..." Well, I heated it till it smoked but couldn't make a glue out of it... the whole appartment building was stinking. REALLY! (don't laugh, I was barely a kid back then) Huge was the discovery that you had to soak it in water before use.... My first mandolin drawings were based upon tracings from still TV screen (not even flat back then and VCR picture was quite fuzzy and ) and scaled up to scale of old broken taterbug mandolin I had at hands... total disaster, I couldn't bend a rib as it was too thick and I just tried to cook it in water for bending as I had no bending iron. I thought the scroll is all hollow and ribs bent all the way inside scroll... I had to reinvent most of the things you can learn in one or two clicks on internet but I continued the fight for almost 10 years carving small items, repairing "lost case" instruments etc. and finally finished my first mandolin in 2001...
My original workshop was small table in corner of basement not large enough for guitar and perhaps 10-15 square feet of space in front of table, one box with tools and hooks on the wall above the table. I did the french polishing at hoem on my school desk...
My current workshop is 6'x12' and part of it is occupied by stash of wood, skis and various raw materials. And I still use most of the crude tools I made 20 years ago.
Just for inspiration, here is the thread where I showed pics of my first effort...
https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/s...?1760-My-first
too bad the pics were all hosted my old server account, I could probably find them somewhere in my computer if you wish.

Thanks for sharing your experience HoGo! You should write a book by the way. You're saying what I am thinking. Where there's a will there's a way. That's why I am building without power tools. That is my way for my will. I have contacted many people already, or else I wouldn't be going this route. The only thing I could possibly lose doing it this way, is money and time. Money for tools which can be used for more attempts, and wood, which is a loss that could be used for something else. Time, on the other hand is not at all an issue for me. I am a lonely person without friends or activities, so I have plenty of free time. I really think if I work hard enough and have the patience to do this, I can do it.

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

Adrian, what a great example of "where there's a will, there's a way," indeed! It was really interesting reading about your experiences. Have you written a blog, or memoir, of how you got started? It is really interesting!

Didn't see your post earlier, but you are spot on. His experience is definitely interesting enough for me to read for days.

[HoGo]

Hre are some pics of that first one... I still have them in my MC account I wonder why they fell out from the posts... perhaps it was because of forum SW upgrade.

[HoGo]

The whole history is too far back to remember the details, but most of the tools are still with me to remind me of bits of my beginnings. Here is a pic of the tools mentioned earlier and basicly this is all I still have (I have one newer chisel but I don't remember I used it other than initial sharpening) and few items like hammers and metal cutting sawblade etc. (I don't even have frame for that and usually use it handheld wrapped with tape)
L-R my trusty Bowie knife (with old worn leather sheath I made myself back in 1991 or so -I ws 13 back then - it has "Hogan" written on backside that became my nickname back then)
my first gouge mede of cold hammered steel sheet, the "extra hard" gouge made from butcher knive sharpener (I've used it for many dirty jobs lately so it's not nice now), my most used gouge - simple work of blacksmith good carbon steel formed to U and sharpened I added the handle. My best chisel- 25mm wide very old Sheffield "cast steel" chisel I dug out of clay when helping in garden behind local church some 10 years ago (there used to be wheelmakers shop many years ago on the place) basically one ball of rust when I lifted it and I grinded the rust off just to see what it was and found faint "cast steel" and anough meat to still work even though there are pits in the blade. Definately great steel sharpens to incredible edge and holds it for long I use it very often,
My tiny dogleg chisel made out of old children set chisel, my old handplane (actually newer reincarnation as the original fell apart after few years of hard use), My binding/purfling cutter - made of whatever material I had at hand - piece of beech wood, old reused bolts and nuts (no two are same) and blade mede of recycled kitchen knife. My old folding knife (it was from russian army electrician set, it's already falling apart and the tape holds it in one piece, but I'm using it for dirty jobs like cutting sandpaper because the blade is soft and sharpens easily), exacto blade inserted into maple stick. I broke the exacto hande during first use so I did this and resharpen the blade as neccessary,
My go-to epoxy cast thumbplane with blade from the kitchen knife and bone cap on bottom.
Some cheap files (I also have 3/16" finer square file with safe edges for fretwork somewhere and round chainsaw file 4mm or so thick)
The scrapers used to be my first fret saw when became too dull to resharpen I cut it into two pieces and made those (very good) scrapers, 0.5mm thick, sharpened to square edge. My old handsaw (soon to become more scrapers 0.8mm thick)
above are some sanding sticks and blocks and two very old Narex chisels with hard rubber/plastic handles that I've been using for hammering frets ever since I started (it offers more control than typical plastic hammer with long handle and is virtually indestructible, I hammer the frets with end of the handle where mallet would strike not by side - impossible to miss the fret this way) and one old chsel I got from my elementary school when they were throwing away damaged tools (it had broken part of the blade).

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

Is it OK to use knotty Ponderosa pine for a top? I know the pine itself is OK, but is it OK that there are knots present? How would it sound?

[Fergus Lester]

I haven't made any mandolins. My Dad taught me how to make rectangular stuff by cutting close to the line with a hand saw and trimming with a hand plane. Without his 60+ years as a joiner, I can get it nearly right at best, but I could get it more right, and quicker using the RIGHT power tools. Presumably Stradivari used the best technology available at the time. But I think I get why someone would want to work totally by hand

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

Hey everybody, just wanted to let you know I'm gonna be posting any progress I make, along with questions on here from now on.
So far, I have a handsaw, coping saw, set of chisels and gouges, a drill, and a sharpening stone. All I really need now are some clamps and a plane, but I can make both of those. I have bought solid pine wood for my top, and some beautiful, beautiful solid poplar wood for the back and sides. I am printing my plans this weekend. We're off to a good start!

[HoGo]

Pine can be OK for top but I would prefer straight grained quartersawn piece even if You had to join several pieces. Knotty flatsawn pine may crack easier when used as thin top and will be bear to plane/ scrape withour chipping at the knots.
This reminds me that my first mandolin was a pancake wreck with totaled top where I made new top using five pieces of spruce roof shingles I got from guy showing ancient crafts on a fair. Trained my joining skills and planing to uniform thickness - I managed to do it on second attempt as I planed right through center of first plate during thicknessing (I had just that small block plane and watching egdes is not enough).
Poplar should be good, perhaps harder to bend as it may be brittle (depending on exact species).

[tonydxn]

Made my first 4 or 5 instruments using only my dad's hand tools. I still have (and use) some of them. Here in UK we have something called Freecycle - a website where people can post messages offering stuff they want to give away. You can do 'wanted' posts too. You must have something similar in US. You may be able to pick up some useful tools free.

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

Pine can be OK for top but I would prefer straight grained quartersawn piece even if You had to join several pieces. Knotty flatsawn pine may crack easier when used as thin top and will be bear to plane/ scrape withour chipping at the knots.
This reminds me that my first mandolin was a pancake wreck with totaled top where I made new top using five pieces of spruce roof shingles I got from guy showing ancient crafts on a fair. Trained my joining skills and planing to uniform thickness - I managed to do it on second attempt as I planed right through center of first plate during thicknessing (I had just that small block plane and watching egdes is not enough).
Poplar should be good, perhaps harder to bend as it may be brittle (depending on exact species).

I actually was lucky enough to find a piece without knots. It is also the size I need so I won't even have to bookmatch! It's great!

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

Ignore this please.

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

Hez PaniniWar... It took you 47 posts to reveal you want to build F-5 and so far you never mentioned what is your background - What (hand) tools do you have and how well you can work with them. Just that you WANT to build beautiful instruments from raw wood with just hand tools. F-5 may be one of the most difficult instruments to build (if you wish it be really beautiful)...
I would suggest that your first study a lot about traditional instrument making. There are zillions of articles and tutorials on internet, perhaps none is start to end with hand tools but all you need is just substitute the handtools instead of the power tools.
If you don't hane good drawing get one, it's one of the most important things on the way to success. I spent few years drawing plans and preparing for the actul work before I started on my first build (almost completely done with hand tools). Now you have everything within few clicks so take the time to do the homework and study how it is done and after that you will be able to ask specific questions like "I have some scrap wood and tools x, y, z and want to start making mould for my F-5 build, what would you suggest?..."
There are many generous builders here willing to help you but you are making it hard or impossible.

Hey Adrian, I am wondering how you went about making your plans. Did you trace from a mandolin you had access too, or what? I am eager to make my plans but I don't know where to start.

[Marty Jacobson]

PaniniWar, is your piece of pine quarter sawn? The grain should look like straight parallel lines, not like U or V shapes. If it's not quarter sawn, it is not likely to work well under tension or over time, but it will still be a good piece of wood to practice with.

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

PaniniWar, is your piece of pine quarter sawn? The grain should look like straight parallel lines, not like U or V shapes. If it's not quarter sawn, it is not likely to work well under tension or over time, but it will still be a good piece of wood to practice with.

I'm not sure Marty, Ill check right when I get home.