Last edited by Jim Garber; Mar-25-2018 at 6:08pm.
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
All this time, I've heard that laminate instruments sound worse, but why is it bookmatching doesn't affect sound? Is it because side by side is OK, vs. layered on top? That would make sense to me considering the movement of sound waves. On a layered soundboard, the waves would have to penetrate multiple layers of wood along with glue, while side by side, it's just penetrating one solid layer of wood, but in multiple places. ???
Sounding worse or better is completely subjective. But it does seem that most humans prefer the sound wood transfers to the air we hear as opposed to most glues and synthetics. On a bookmatched top and back, the ratio of glue to wood is of no consequence. The acoustics are the same. When you start laminating veneers together in layers with glue in between, you're veering away from wood into some composite which doesn't usually have the "warmth" of wood. I think a better way to think of the process of the top/back/system of a musical instrument- the sound waves aren't "penetrating" anything. They're exciting/ vibrating other things which in turn vibrate. What you hear from the instrument is the air being moved by this vibrating system. It's not like there's a lot of little sound elves bouncing around off of the walls. It's a system.
Dale Ludewig
http://www.ludewigmandolins.com
Just a different use of terms. "The ability to transfer vibrations"- that's excellent. And it's important to understand it that way.
How's your hand?
Dale Ludewig
http://www.ludewigmandolins.com
I have had guitars, one a 1930, with a laminated back and sides, solid spruce top. It was a great sounding instrument. It would be interesting to make two instruments with the same top and solid and laminated sides and back. Possibly use the same top for a comparison in sound.
THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!
I like the idea of the bamboo. I know bamboo is a grass, but acoustically, would it work like a hardwood or a softwood?
Roger Borys, working with James D'Aquisto, developed a method of using laminated wood for jazz guitars. They are all electric but sound very good acoustically as well. I have played one and it was very nice and reasonably priced for a handmade archtop.
There is lamination and lamination.
I can't recall the maker but there is a high-end classical guitar maker who uses a specifically designed laminated top with some sort honey-comb construction.
Ah, I found it. It is called Nomex and is used by Hill Guitar Company and probably a bunch of others.
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
Laminate back can be quite good. I've heard more than enough laminated back guitars that were better than all soild wood even from the same factory...
But for tops laminate changes game completely. Laminate top means there are two VERY thin spruce veneers on the outside and one thick veneer of cheaper wood (often poplar or basswood mahogany or some kind of common cheap veneer woods) oriented across. So the stiffness of the result is very different from solid wood (most noticable on soft woods, less os on hardwoods where crossgrain stiffness is higher and the lighter/softer wood center lamination will not affect it as much).
If you glue two pieces of wood edge to edge it will act just like one larger piece of wood as the stifnesses in all three directions are unchanged. That's the difference between solid wood and plywood, only typical plywood ofen has more layers...
There are guitar makers who laminate backs and ribs out of two or more layers of wood oriented the same way. IMO, if in this case your joint is perfectly tight and no thick layer of glue is left inside (and assuming there is not much glue soaked into the wood), the result will again be very similar if not same as solid piece of wood.
On electric archtop jazz/blues guitars laminate top can be usefull as it is not as responsive to vibrations and helps reduce feedback of pickups.
One more note, I'm not sure about this but I read somewhere that the original Selmer - Maccaferi gypsy guitars were made with laminated back and sides... no one complained about their sound...
Adrian
That is a really good summary, Adrian. Thanks for posting .
I'm playing all the right notes, but not necessarily in the right order. - Eric Morecambe
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheOldBores
One other thing about using laminations. It takes much more setup and equipment than using solid woods (10 times as much work to get set up). Not something you're going to do on a shoestring budget, it's more of a long-term production process.
Hey Ajay, have you considered making a cigar box mandolin? All you have to make is the neck (which admittedly is probably the hardest single part to make of any instrument), and I guarantee you there will be important things to learn as you go. It will eliminate a lot of the initial problems, and will let you get your feet wet so you can start enjoying an instrument you've built with much less time invested so you don't get frustrated building it all from scratch.
Got the plans, Adrian! Thank you so much! I'll definitely use these for my next build.
Check out this guy making guitars from pallets. DEPALET- artisanal reclaimed wood guitars
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
I am slowly but surely flattening out the piece of poplar. It might go to waste if I do the cutting board idea, but there's no such thing as too much practice, right?
I'll try to post a picture if I remember to, but heads up, it looks absolutely atrocious at this point. It is hard to flatten wood from 1.75 inches to .15" with a hammer and some chisels. But I am definitely enjoying the ride.
Hey everybody, I am a little curious about what would happen if I made a small body mandolin (kinda like a piccolo mandolin), but wound mandocello strings on it. Would it sound good? Is it even reasonable?
I am in Physics 101 right now and we're learning about the physics of waves, and part of the unit is sound waves, and I think I can gauge the velocity and frequencies of waves well, so that might come in handy as well.
Also, I am done with my search for wood at this point, but I was a bit surprised when I went to Lowes, and I repeatedly tapped on different pieces of poplar and pine. And the poplar ringed like a bell, while the pine made a bit of a tone, but nothing near what the poplar achieved. Definitely a bit interesting...
Not sure this would work. What would the tuning be? This would be sort of like putting a set of cello strings on your violin. You couldn't tune it as a cello because the scale length is too short. You couldn't tune it as a violin because the string gauges are too large. I guess you could bring the strings to tension, see where they land, and construct a tuning around that. But I would guess that big 'cello strings on a tiny piccolo body would sound super, super, super thin.
Matt Morgan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jztTl1mas94
Here in ranch country, when we encounter someone who is all talk and no action we say..."He is all hat and no cattle." The poster, in my humble opinion..is being rewarded for speculation with no action. It also reminds me of the "jam" rule of.."get up, sing, sit down."
Pelone, in Michigan it’s
“Big hat, no cattle” but the intent is the same.
Almost 300 posts and the fishing expedition continues.
Timothy F. Lewis
"If brains was lard, that boy couldn't grease a very big skillet" J.D. Clampett
I am working on my mandolin. I am literally chiseling away at a thick piece of wood for hours each weekend while my parents tell me to stop. I don't understand why you all are repeatedly saying I am not doing anything. If you don't think my questions are worthwhile, don't answer, just let other people who are willing to respond answer.
Using chisels and a hammer to thickness wood is an enormous waste of time. Five bucks worth of tools at harbor freight would save you hours of time and loads of frustration. Honestly, you should know that at this point.
1918 Gibson F4
2016 Northfield NF-5S
2017 Black Guitar Bodied Octave Mandolin #42
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