No Power Tool Mandolin

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

Bought a vice for 7.88. Saving the rest for later.

[Marty Jacobson]

Luckily, I already have access to various clamps, so I'm good in that department.

Hmm... OK. I have a wall full of them, and still don't have enough. :-)
A vise is useful to have, and everyone should have at least one vice.

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

Hmm... OK. I have a wall full of them, and still don't have enough. :-)
A vise is useful to have, and everyone should have at least one vice.

I guess you're right, you can always use more clamps, it's just not the top priority right now, and if I desperately need more, I could probably make some. I'm saving the rest of the Amazon money for the hardware at the end of the project. I found this nice, cheap tonewood here and it'll only cost $18 total after shipping, so that's great. Once my left hand becomes usable again (probably around the end of the week), I'll get right back to building. My plan right now is to wait for Adrian's plans to arrive, carve out the back, make an MDF or cardboard mould, prepare a side bending rig, bend the sides and fit them to the mould, buy the soundboard wood I linked earlier, make a top, buy some wood for the neck, cut it in half, put some veneers in the middle, glue it up, carve it up, make a fretboard, glue the fretboard to a neck, glue the overlay on the headstock, put together the body, glue it all up, and add hardware. If all goes as planned, this will be great fun.

[pelone]

Parnav-----Yeah...easy peasy....bata bing, bata boom. Please let me see a photo of your finished project.

[Marty Jacobson]

My plan right now is to wait for Adrian's plans to arrive, carve out the back, make an MDF or cardboard mould, prepare a side bending rig, bend the sides and fit them to the mould, buy the soundboard wood I linked earlier, make a top, buy some wood for the neck, cut it in half, put some veneers in the middle, glue it up, carve it up, make a fretboard, glue the fretboard to a neck, glue the overlay on the headstock, put together the body, glue it all up, and add hardware. If all goes as planned, this will be great fun.

It will be great fun. And no, it won't go as planned. Be prepared for that. But that's exactly what makes it fun.

I tell my students all the time... don't make your vision a reality, let reality shape your vision. By making mistakes and figuring things out, you're making your idea far better than it was originally in your head. That's the whole point of building something.

[Steve Sorensen]

Pranav,

This is just painful.

Spend your first $25.00 HERE and your next $22 HERE

When you've read the both books, cover to cover, you'll be in a place where what you are dreaming of doing makes some sense and you can ask questions which actually will help you get supplies and start.

If you don't have the drive, focus, and maturity to buy and read a couple of books before you get started, the odds are stacked against you. Ignorance is not your friend.

AND, for the love of all that is simple, Google "Building a mandolin" and spend a month reading all the many web sites and watching the hundreds of YouTube videos that are on the internet 24x7.

The worst part of reading this long and painful string is that so much information is at your fingertips . . . if you would take the time to look.

Quit trying to take shortcuts and do your homework.

Steve

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

Parnav-----Yeah...easy peasy....bata bing, bata boom. Please let me see a photo of your finished project.

I never said it will be easy. I don't see why the sarcasm was necessary. I just simply said my game plan for this project. This will likely take me months, maybe a year or two. I know it will be hard.

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

Pranav,

This is just painful.

Spend your first $25.00 HERE and your next $22 HERE

When you've read the both books, cover to cover, you'll be in a place where what you are dreaming of doing makes some sense and you can ask questions which actually will help you get supplies and start.

If you don't have the drive, focus, and maturity to buy and read a couple of books before you get started, the odds are stacked against you. Ignorance is not your friend.

AND, for the love of all that is simple, Google "Building a mandolin" and spend a month reading all the many web sites and watching the hundreds of YouTube videos that are on the internet 24x7.

The worst part of reading this long and painful string is that so much information is at your fingertips . . . if you would take the time to look.

Quit trying to take shortcuts and do your homework.

Steve

I don't see how I am taking shortcuts. I have spent literally all of my free time in the past 3 weeks figuring out what to do and studying the work of other luthiers. Why are you assuming I didn't? How do you think I made a plan for this project? I thought people on this forum were nice, and they have been, but that was some unnecessary hostility. Condescending as well.

[Timbofood]

Pranav, I had excused myself from this but your last comment is a little naive.
Not one person here has said you CANT do this, they have almost without exception have supported your desire to build but, how do you espxpect to really glean expertise from some of the very, very talented luthiers if you don’t listen to the basic information that is offered. If you can’t afford the books to read and learn from the expense of the tools is wasted.
Steve is making a clear point, read the “How to” information first, they will become reference material you can use for a long time. Getting Adrian’s plans is all well and good, they are beautiful! I’m glad you backed off the “I want to build an F-5” idea in favor of a more basic flat topped instrument, wise move.
The fact that you have admitted your limited knowledge and skills is equally refreshing but, until you have read some, and studied some plans, at least learned how to sharpen tools you should expect a little criticism.
Building an F-5 right out of the gate with no experience was a very grand thought but rather trying to build the Mackinaw Bridge with a hacksaw and a napkin sketch.
You have made more than one reference to buying wood with no understanding of the joinery involved, another claim of having enough clamps with no idea of how things will need to be positioned. The books are excellent resources with plans and instructions, smart to use other peoples expertise. You don’t really need to get your back up at Steve, he’s just trying to save you money, more injury and headache by telling you to learn some basics.
I’m sure now I have fallen into the condescending, mean spirit list but, that’s just the way I see it. Have fun, don’t hurt yourself, we’re all really trying to help no matter how it sounds.
Just for the record, three weeks is NOTHING in the learning curve of building instruments, Adrian spent YEARS drawing his plans, spend three weeks more reading the books than another three learning how to sharpen tools, then another three making the first joint...ad nauseum.

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

Pranav, I had excused myself from this but your last comment is a little naive.
Not one person here has said you CANT do this, they have almost without exception have supported your desire to build but, how do you espxpect to really glean expertise from some of the very, very talented luthiers if you don’t listen to the basic information that is offered. If you can’t afford the books to read and learn from the expense of the tools is wasted.
Steve is making a clear point, read the “How to” information first, they will become reference material you can use for a long time. Getting Adrian’s plans is all well and good, they are beautiful! I’m glad you backed off the “I want to build an F-5” idea in favor of a more basic flat topped instrument, wise move.
The fact that you have admitted your limited knowledge and skills is equally refreshing but, until you have read some, and studied some plans, at least learned how to sharpen tools you should expect a little criticism.
Building an F-5 right out of the gate with no experience was a very grand thought but rather trying to build the Mackinaw Bridge with a hacksaw and a napkin sketch. You have made more than one reference to buying wood with no understanding if the joinery involved, you don’t really need to get your back up at Steve, he’s just trying to save you more injury and headache by telling you to learn some basics.
I’m sure now I have fallen into the condescending, mean spirit list but, that’s just the way I see it. Have fun, don’t hurt yourself, we’re all really trying to help no matter how it sounds.

I may have forgotten to mention this, but I actually got the Siminoff book from my local library. I have learned to sharpen tools, and that is why I am practicing using them before starting on the good stock. I don't at all find you in that list. You have been helpful all of this time. All I said is how I plan to approach this project.

[Tom Haywood]

A couple of questions, Pranav, to help me gain some clarity. No condescension intended, so please bear with me. These are based on your earliest comments in this thread and comments in another thread. I, too, want to see you succeed.

1. Do you intend to build a playable mandolin or a piece of art? If it's art, then most of the advice you are getting here won't seem necessary, because, really, it isn't necessary. The advice here so far is from very experienced builders of mandolins intended to be purchased and played. If the intention is art only, then all this business about tone woods and joinery and so forth are not important. I will look forward to seeing the art you produce.

2. What experience do you have in carpentry? Creativity is wonderful. But there are "rules" about wood choices, what tools to use for certain tasks, and how to use those tools and be safe. You've already gotten a taste of that with the chisel. These "rules" come from experience. Learning them comes from experience, but guidance from someone who already has the experience is necessary or else you likely won't get very far. Same with the design of mandolins that are playable and sound good. I would rate mandolin building at the very top level of required carpentry skills - basically the next step above furniture building. All of the builders who have responded to you, so far as I can tell, have that level of skill. It takes many years of wood working to acquire it, and I believe most builders here were already at that skill level before they took on mandolins.

3. What kind of budget do you have available? If this is to build a piece of art, then $20 here and there will work. A playable mandolin requires a complete plan of action from start to finish - before you start, and that includes a budget for the necessary materials and actually purchasing most of them in advance.

4. Do you play the mandolin? It is not necessary that you do, but playing gives you a lot of information about what a playable mandolin should do.

I admire your goal and determination to achieve it. As Marty indicated earlier, let your goal be flexible because what you actually are capable of doing will show up as you proceed, and that will determine what you produce. It may not be what you intended originally, but it will still be a very good thing. And you already know that.

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

A couple of questions, Pranav, to help me gain some clarity. No condescension intended, so please bear with me. These are based on your earliest comments in this thread and comments in another thread. I, too, want to see you succeed.

1. Do you intend to build a playable mandolin or a piece of art? If it's art, then most of the advice you are getting here won't seem necessary, because, really, it isn't necessary. The advice here so far is from very experienced builders of mandolins intended to be purchased and played. If the intention is art only, then all this business about tone woods and joinery and so forth are not important. I will look forward to seeing the art you produce.

2. What experience do you have in carpentry? Creativity is wonderful. But there are "rules" about wood choices, what tools to use for certain tasks, and how to use those tools and be safe. You've already gotten a taste of that with the chisel. These "rules" come from experience. Learning them comes from experience, but guidance from someone who already has the experience is necessary or else you likely won't get very far. Same with the design of mandolins that are playable and sound good. I would rate mandolin building at the very top level of required carpentry skills - basically the next step above furniture building. All of the builders who have responded to you, so far as I can tell, have that level of skill. It takes many years of wood working to acquire it, and I believe most builders here were already at that skill level before they took on mandolins.

3. What kind of budget do you have available? If this is to build a piece of art, then $20 here and there will work. A playable mandolin requires a complete plan of action from start to finish - before you start, and that includes a budget for the necessary materials and actually purchasing most of them in advance.

4. Do you play the mandolin? It is not necessary that you do, but playing gives you a lot of information about what a playable mandolin should do.

I admire your goal and determination to achieve it. As Marty indicated earlier, let your goal be flexible because what you actually are capable of doing will show up as you proceed, and that will determine what you produce. It may not be what you intended originally, but it will still be a very good thing. And you already know that.

1. Both. I want a very playable instrument, but I want it to feel like my own work of art. I want it to be unique to only me, and don;t want it to be normal, per se.

2. I have a decent bit of experience of woodworking with power tools, but hand tools aren't the most familiar.

3. I don't completely know what my budget is, but all I have to buy at this point is a soundboard piece ($20), neck blank(~$10), tuning pegs ($10), strings($6), maybe a bit of decorative pieces of wood or MoP for little embellishments, and I will be set (for the time being).

4. I do not yet play the mandolin, but I have played the violin for 7 years, so I'm not completely clueless.

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

Just a note, I want to make a back and bend the sides before buying anything else, because I want to prove to my dad that I'm not just wasting our money. I plan to start on the back this weekend, and plan to bend the sides once I find a propane torch or heat gun I can use. Also, I want to make it clear that my goal isn't to make a sellable mandolin. It's to make a playable mandolin as a "first shot" at luthierie. I will make more instruments if this fails or if it succeeds. I will be happy with my results as long as it sounds better than the Rogue RM100. The poplar top has unfortunately made itself appealing again. Let's all just stay quiet and see what happens however. I'll post pictures at the first step I take. All I have done so far is to make a plywood template.

[JeffD]

Pranav, you will have to be careful with your choices of wood you try to bring back to the USA from India. Many species are now forbidden under CITES and other legislation and I would hate to hear of you turning up at Customs with your chosen timbers only to have the wood confiscated and maybe have a heavy fine imposed on you.

Also, I didn't mean I want to bring wood here from India, I meant I want to build the instrument while I am at India. .

If I am not mistaken the same rules apply to wood whether you bring in boards or a finished mandolin. You don't want to make a mandolin that gets impounded. Check into it please.

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

If I am not mistaken the same rules apply to wood whether you bring in boards or a finished mandolin. You don't want to make a mandolin that gets impounded. Check into it please.

OK, thanks for letting me know, I'll check if I am bringing forbidden species.

[Jeff Mando]

I had my tulip bulbs from Holland confiscated by US Customs.....

I wish the agent had at least sent me a picture of how they looked at his house...

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

Should I use a truss rod in my build? I can't find a consistent answer when I look, so any experiences would be appreciated. I don't want adjustability, I have a bad habit of constantly adjusting if I have the choice to. Do I need any reinforcement for the neck?

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

Also, would pine be too weak for a neck? How about Oak?

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

How would the sound change if you shaped the sides around the soundboard rather than under it?

[Marc Berman]

Nope. But I would think it would be harder to clamp.

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

Nope. But I would think it would be harder to clamp.

Which question are you answering?

[Marc Berman]

Which question are you answering?

The one about forming the sides around the soundboard.

[Pranav Ajay Warrier]

The one about forming the sides around the soundboard.

What did you mean by nope?

[Dale Ludewig]

Hey Pranav,

I've been away from the computer a couple days. At least as far as the MC goes. I'm sorry to hear of your self-inflicted wound. I've done the same with a chisel. I thought that was stupid when I did it. And continue to do it occasionally. Don't stick your thumb into a jointer. I've never cut myself making dosas! Although you could do it making sambar, especially trying to cut up those "lady fingers" or whatever they're called. Good stuff though.

Although you didn't ask for my thoughts right now, I shall donate them for free. One major thing that separates you and your expected experience in mandolin building from the experience and expectations of those of us who basically taught ourselves how to do this is that when we started doing this: there was no internet. There was almost nothing in "print" on how to build musical instruments, especially guitars and mandolins. Virtually nothing. Videos and internet forums? Nothing. The technology to present such information wasn't even born yet. Think about that for a minute or two.

Now look around at the world we live in. Information on how to do almost anything is a few mouse clicks away. And from your energetic youthful view (I wish I had more of it), it is easy to kind of think that acquiring the actual understanding and skills to "make stuff" has progressed as rapidly as the ability to find or view descriptions of the same. That's not reality in spite of the enthusiasm of youth. I admire and encourage you. I had similar aspirations when I was your age. I remember when I was in high school (back in the 1960's), a classmate and I made a model of a cotton gin, from scratch. With drawings from some book, I suppose. It must have made an impression on my classmate also, because we talked about it last year at our 50th high school reunion, and I hadn't seen him since high school.

Please be patient with yourself and the physics of the world. And please be patient with those of us who have walked your path before. We aren't doing anything but trying to guide you. To keep you out of the ditch, so to speak.

[Marty Jacobson]

How would the sound change if you shaped the sides around the soundboard rather than under it?

That's how I do it. It's not "a bit harder to clamp"... it's fiendishly difficult to do. Clamping isn't the problem. Getting the joint perfect is the problem, all the way around the perimeter, with two separate pieces of wood which are not touching.

Here's an article about how I do it.
http://martinjacobson.com/id/shop-an...tegral-binding

In woodworking, you want to have structural joints, and decorative joints. And if you need a structural joint, which is also a decorative (visible) joint, and which bends around in multiple axes... then it might take you a thousand hours or so to figure out how to do it. At least that's how much time it took for me to figure out how to do it.

No pine for necks. It's not strong enough, and it's too dynamic (unstable) with weather changes. Oak or maple are both good choices. Oak will be heavier, and maple will be easier to work with. I use a 1/4" carbon fiber reinforcement for the neck, but a 1/4" steel rod would be OK too, though sub-optimal in terms of mass.