Mandola or Octave?

[Dafgog]

Having turned to Mandolin from guitar, banjo, ukulele etc about 18 months ago, I have really been enjoying my Prucha Mandolin in tobacco sunburst.
I am now thinking about a Mandola or Octave mandolin as I am looking for a deeper sound. I rarely play bluegrass and gone are days of performing in bands of various types (I think). Rather I am looking for an instrument which I can play tunes on (not chops) for my own pleasure- varied repertoire from Irish Jigs to Bach.
I do though have small fingers and was born with a pinky that turns inwards making stretches even more difficult. (4 finger chords are nigh impossible despite stretching). I have fancied many mandolas and Octaves from the USA but unfortunately it seems as though import taxes and shipping are making what seemed reasonable prices into expensive ones- easily adding 28% to the original costs.
Nevertheless my ears and eyes have been turned by some great instruments. What are your views? 1. A Capek basic Octave A4 around 2250 $; A Weber BitterrootA5 Octave around 4500$ (20'' scale) a Girouad Mandola 4200$ and an Italian Liuteria M&M di Matteo Giuliboni around $3200 My budget would not stretch to more than 4250$ ideally. All these are prices having been imported to UK

[Charlieshafer]

I can only say I've had experience with the Webers and the Girouad, both are excellent. As to mazola vs. Octave, the longer scale of the octave may prove a little tougher based on what you're saying, but I think you'll like the deeper voice more. Plus, you won;t need to worry about moving the chord shapes around as they're tuned the same. The mandola isn't that much of a big deal; chords are the same shapes, just shifted down a course of strings. Remember that of you go with the octave, there is a world of alternative tuning out there which will make chord shapes easier. With the mandola, while you can also use alternative tunings, it's just not as much a "thing to do" as with the smaller body, you don't jet the sustain and volume as you would with an octave. If you're in the UK, are there any Sobers kicking around used? Or still too expensive?

[colorado_al]

I like having an octave mandolin and a capo. Capo it at #5 and you're in mandola voicing. I like that it gives me more possibilities.

[Dafgog]

I can only say I've had experience with the Webers and the Girouad, both are excellent. As to mazola vs. Octave, the longer scale of the octave may prove a little tougher based on what you're saying, but I think you'll like the deeper voice more. Plus, you won;t need to worry about moving the chord shapes around as they're tuned the same. The mandola isn't that much of a big deal; chords are the same shapes, just shifted down a course of strings. Remember that of you go with the octave, there is a world of alternative tuning out there which will make chord shapes easier. With the mandola, while you can also use alternative tunings, it's just not as much a "thing to do" as with the smaller body, you don't jet the sustain and volume as you would with an octave. If you're in the UK, are there any Sobers kicking around used? Or still too expensive?

Do ypu mean Stefan Sobell? Sadly not.

[OneChordTrick]

Why not look at some local builders rather than importing?

[Dafgog]

Any suggestions re uk builders? Sobell not making mandolins or mandolas at present.

[OneChordTrick]

Any suggestions re uk builders? Sobell not making mandolins or mandolas at present.

I've got a Paul Hathway mandolin that I'm very pleased with - Hobgoblin have a couple of his octaves second hand which look good value if they sound as good as my mandolin. Jimmy Moon is well regarded, Gary Nava makes some beautiful instruments and the sound clips that I've heard are great. Have a look on the builder database here: https://www.mandolincafe.com/cgi-bin...search=Kingdom

[Gelsenbury]

Fylde would be a good choice. I have one of their mandolins and am very happy with it. Mandolin Café member Bertram Henze plays one of their octave mandolas. Search for his video submissions to get an idea of the sound.

[Charlieshafer]

Do ypu mean Stefan Sobell? Sadly not.

Yes. Can I kill my auto-spell feature? I;m amazed at the words that come out of it...

[Martin Jonas]

Fylde, Phil Davidson, Paul Hathway and Jimmy Moon spring to mind. There are also any number of independent builders who will be only to happy to built a custom-made mandola or OM. When it comes to the larger mandokin, the UK is arguably better served than the US as there is more of a recognised role for the octave mandolin and bouzouki in the British and Irish folk and roots scene than there is in bluegrass, old-time etc in the US.

Martin

[Dafgog]

I've got a Paul Hathway mandolin that I'm very pleased with - Hobgoblin have a couple of his octaves second hand which look good value if they sound as good as my mandolin. Jimmy Moon is well regarded, Gary Nava makes some beautiful instruments and the sound clips that I've heard are great. Have a look on the builder database here: https://www.mandolincafe.com/cgi-bin...search=Kingdom

Thanks to all continuing my research - just had a great discussion with Richard Osborne luthier - hit a lot of right notes with me. Knowledgable , approachable and fairly local. But more than that his instruments look top class. Thanks to everyone please keep the info coming.

[Bertram Henze]

Fylde would be a good choice. I have one of their mandolins and am very happy with it. Mandolin Café member Bertram Henze plays one of their octave mandolas. Search for his video submissions to get an idea of the sound.

Ok, I am partial to both OM and Fylde, it's true.
Four-finger chords are out of the question, but if you don't play BG anyway why bother?

It's not a mandolin, after all. You have to find out what's possible.Just an example of what Gelsenbury meant is here.

[Dafgog]

Excellent Thanks Betram

[J-45er]

* * *
I do though have small fingers and was born with a pinky that turns inwards making stretches even more difficult. (4 finger chords are nigh impossible despite stretching). * * *

Nevertheless my ears and eyes have been turned by some great instruments. What are your views? 1. A Capek basic Octave A4 around 2250 $; A Weber BitterrootA5 Octave around 4500$ (20'' scale) a Girouad Mandola 4200$ and an Italian Liuteria M&M di Matteo Giuliboni around $3200 My budget would not stretch to more than 4250$ ideally. All these are prices having been imported to UK

I'd definitely focus on string scale length. For example, the Weber website has these specs: octaves come in 20" and 22" string scales and their A style mandolas are 17" string scale. Can't really help with UK pricing, but people who own octaves and mandolas typically do not abuse these instruments. So you can stretch your budget by looking for high quality used instruments.

[gtani7]

I've sort of been considering dolas, octaves and m'cellos for awhile but in the meantime i bought a $149 Recording King tenor banjo so i can have some chord runs and tunes to test out instruments, sort of a segue/pilot project/baby step to octaves etc. I also played a Blueridge tenor guitar from Saga yesterday for $600 new, very nice instrument.

And yes, I'm not sure i can handle the string tension in my aging but not yet arthritic left hand but there's only one way to find out.

[foldedpath]

I've sort of been considering dolas, octaves and m'cellos for awhile but in the meantime i bought a $149 Recording King tenor banjo so i can have some chord runs and tunes to test out instruments, sort of a segue/pilot project/baby step to octaves etc. I also played a Blueridge tenor guitar from Saga yesterday for $600 new, very nice instrument.

And yes, I'm not sure i can handle the string tension in my aging but not yet arthritic left hand but there's only one way to find out.

The string tension on my Weber OM (22" scale) doesn't feel any different than on my acoustic guitar or mandolin. So I don't think that will be an issue for you. It's more about the degree of finger stretching with a 5ths-tuned instrument at longer scale lengths. You can capo to reduce that, but this will put you out of range of the common keys that tunes are played in. That won't matter if you're just playing alone, but it can be an issue when playing with others.

For what it's worth... I'm 64 years old, don't have arthritis, but can definitely feel that my hands aren't as flexible as they used to be. On the other hand, I'm 6' 2" tall with corresponding hand size, so I can handle the stretch on things like fiddle tune melodies in open position on my 22" scale OM. I use just a slightly modified standard mandolin fingering, using my pinky more than I would on mandolin, with a slide up to the high B note in a fiddle tune.

I do feel it though. My left hand will start to ache, if I play more than a few fast fiddle tunes in a row. I can do that on mandolin with no trouble at all. So my approach is to divide my repertoire, using the mandolin for fast reels, jigs, and strathspeys. I use the OM mainly for the slower stuff -- metered airs, "slow reels," and marches. Slower tempo tunes also let me take full advantage of the much greater sustain of an OM, which you can't hear as well on the fast tunes like reels.

[Dafgog]

Think I've made the decision to buy an OM. As Bertram Henze says why play 4 finger chords if its for deeper melody playing. Its not for Bluegrass. Now then to choose the builder. Must say my local builder has a number of plusses. Will try and visit Osborne guitars and Mandos in the next 10 days.Will let you know what unfolds.