Gibson Mandolin ID Trouble

[John Rosett]

I'm pretty sure that the logo was painted on, not a decal. I once had an old Gibson Southerner Jumbo that looked like it was from the 40's but had a 50's logo on the peghead(This was before Gibson started using pearl inlay on that model). It needed a bunch of work, and had obviously been repaired and oversprayed at some point. When I brought it to my luthier, we got to talking about the logo discrepancy. He held it at just the right angle in the sun, and you could see the older script logo under the newer paint. He was able to remove the modern silkscreened logo and layer of black paint, so that the original, 1947 script logo was visible.

[Nferr]

Any chance the “The Gibson” inlay is under that black paint?

[MikeEdgerton]

Yes. I think that this mandolin went back to the Gibson factory in the late 40's for a refinish, and got new tuners and a Gibson logo at the same time.

I do too, I just would think it would have gone back for something other than a refinish. Then again, the obvious answer might have been it needed tuners and nobody where they were had them.

Assuming the screws holding the tuners on are original, the phillips head dates it later as well. Those could have been changed I guess.

[MikeEdgerton]

Any chance the “The Gibson” inlay is under that black paint?

It may not have had one but if it was there I think you'd see a little variation in the paint and be able to tell it was there.

[Nferr]

I don’t see a variation in the finish, but they did lay it on thick. I don’t think I’d go peeling finish back unless I was 100% sure there would be something under there.

[Nferr]

Have we concluded that it’s probably an original neck?

[John Rosett]

Any chance the “The Gibson” inlay is under that black paint?

No, that's a style A, which didn't have any peghead logo in the teens. Other indicators of it being a style A (as opposed to an A1, A2, etc.) are the unbound fingerboard and the single inlay ring around the soundhole.

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Have we concluded that it’s probably an original neck?

That's my opinion...

[Nferr]

Also, with the label just saying Model: a-, is it an A1,2,3,4?

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Answered my question before I asked

[John Rosett]

here's a picture of a couple of miscreants "meditating" with teens style A mandolins

[Nferr]

Thank you all so much!! Putting it through the shop for a cleaning and setup and putting her up for sale!

[MikeEdgerton]

I found one image of a 1913 with the inlay, probably added later. The rest I looked at it the archive don't have the logo.

[John Rosett]

I found one image of a 1913 with the inlay, probably added later. The rest I looked at it the archive don't have the logo.

Can you post a link?

[MikeEdgerton]

I'd like to if I could find it. I must have got that one off Google before I got smart and went to the archive. I thought it was in the archive but when I went back I couldn't find it. I have to stop looking at pictures on my phone. I totally missed that headstock shape.

I think I just found it on the Google image search using 1913 Gibson a style as the search term. The neck is bound, it's listed as an A it isn't. And I'm wrong again, it's listed as an A1 in the fine print.

[rcc56]

I have seen quite a few prewar Gibson instruments that went back to the factory later for one reason or another and received a postwar logo. In the old days, it was not unusual to send a Gibson back for a refret or a refinish. When they refinished, they would often put the modern logo on the instrument.

My guess is that Nferr's mandolin went back to the factory sometime between 1947 and 1955 and was "reconditioned" with a new finish, new logo, and a new pickguard. I think the tuners might have been installed earlier. The riveted tuner shafts look like wartime issue to me. I believe the neck is original-- I see nothing to make me think otherwise.

I even had an LG-2 guitar which had a firestripe pickguard [used only in 1942 and early 1943] that had the modern logo. In friendlier days, Gibson would actually allow their dealers to trade in unsold stock for other new instruments [My, how things have changed!!]. I believe this guitar was one that had been traded back in and had the logo changed when it got back to the factory. There were no signs that the neck had ever been off the instrument.

[mrmando]

No, that's a style A, which didn't have any peghead logo in the teens. Other indicators of it being a style A (as opposed to an A1, A2, etc.) are the unbound fingerboard and the single inlay ring around the soundhole.

An A-, actually, according to the label. John is right, the original headstock would have been plain, so silkscreening or stenciling a new one on there would be a simple matter. But that logo wasn't used before 1948, so that's the earliest date it could have been put there. Agree with rcc56 that the refinish and new pickguard bracket are probably from the same time as the logo. (I don't know if the pickguard is a replacement, but the bracket certainly is.)

If screw holes had to be redone for those tuners, obviously that's an argument in favor of it being an original neck. If you're putting on a new neck, odds are the holes would be drilled correctly the first time. And if those tuners were used only during the war, then they are earlier than the postwar logo, as rcc56 observes.

[Eric Platt]

I'm thinking the tuners are to the old spacing. Otherwise I can't see fitting them on with grommets. Wonder if Gibson had a small stock of these made during the war to fix old instruments? Haven't seen others, but that doesn't mean anything.

[Nferr]

I can confirm from years of doing vintage guitar restoration that those tuners were still in circulation in 1946. They certainly weren’t used quite as often or as popular, but both Kay and Harmon they were installing left over, or era keys off until 49 or 50. It would make the most sense that it was all done at one time— The pick guard bracket, the refinish, and the keys. The frets look a little bit later, and if the instrument was used often that would make sense. Best Theory so far in my opinion, is that it’s obviously a 1913 model that came back to Gibson in 46 or 47 for a re-fret and at the time had a refinish, New Picard bracket, headstock logo, and tuners.

Sorry about any typos. AutoCorrect gets me every time.

[MikeEdgerton]

I think the pick guard might be original or at least old material as I've never seen a newer one rot like that. The bracket was definitely new. I still wonder about the post spacing on the tuners. Do they have the new or old spacing?

[mrmando]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaand now she's for sale at rather an immodest price.

https://nashville.craigslist.org/msg...485692020.html

[allenhopkins]

Seller says it has the "original strap," though.

[pops1]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaand now she's for sale at rather an immodest price.

https://nashville.craigslist.org/msg...485692020.html

It's on Reverb a little cheaper:

https://reverb.com/item/10091247-cel...mazoo-epiphone

[Jeff Mando]

The refinish is weird on that one. It looks like they just resprayed over the dirt and pickwear, especially around the soundhole area. More like an overspray except for the sunburst........

The "celebrity" angle they are pushing doesn't seem to add any value, IMHO.......granted Webb Pierce was the "Garth Brooks" of the early 50's, then again there's probably a lot of great musicians delivering pizzas now who used to play with Garth Brooks...

[mrmando]

Well, the Reverb listing has ended but the CraigsList one is still up.

[Timbofood]

Seems a bit dear for a humble “A” but, the original strap...well!
Interesting “Stan Jay” esque description. Not quite as florid but, sure proud of its heritage.
Just an observation.

[MikeEdgerton]

The "celebrity" angle they are pushing doesn't seem to add any value, IMHO.......

I agree but I'm not a die hard Webb's backup band fan. Maybe to somebody but I doubt it.