Mesquite as Ebony alternative for fingerboards

[NRMiller1958]

Five years ago I finished this F-style with an ebonized mesquite fingerboard. I soaked the near-finished board in Heintz white vinegar after letting it "eat" a pad of steel wool. The finished board looked great, but the color didn't soak as deep into the wood as I had hoped, and I was worried that it would wear through to the brown mesquite. The owner reports that after 5 years of hard playing (as evidenced by the wear on the frets) the board still looks great. It's important that we find good substitutes for endangered woods like ebony, and this seems to be one great alternative for a traditional black fingerboard.

[Dave Hanson]

looks good to me.

Dave H

[Tavy]

looks good to me.

Me too. Be interesting to see how other alternatives (Rocklite and similar) hold up in 10 years time.

[William Smith]

I'm curious about other fingerboard woods as well, we know that tradition is ebony and rosewood for just about everything, but I wonder what an F-5 would sound like with a very hard maple board-I believe this has been done by Stiver? And I like the sound of Telecasters with maple boards better than rosewood! The maple wears fine if you look at all the old teles! so why not an F-5 or A-5 etc...It sure would look nice also on a blonde or sunburst finished final mandolin I think.

[NRMiller1958]

I'm of the opinion that a fingerboard's main role is structural and aesthetic but that it's effect on tone is minimal, especially on a mandolin with an already-stiff maple neck. Both mesquite and maple fit these criteria, though I was going for a more traditional (ebony) look on this one. BTW, I expected the mesquite would be hard to work with, but it was a joy relative to hard maple, and extremely stable.

[Bernie Daniel]

Two North American woods that seem to look good and work well are persimmon (American ebony) and Osage orange. This pic shows some fret boards I made last year. Number one is Gabon ebony, numbers two and three are persimmon that i stained with Fiebings black oil stain and the rest are Osage orange.

[Don Grieser]

I think Bill Bussmann has made some fingerboards with mesquite and maybe ironwood.

[pops1]

I have seen old instruments from the 20's and later that have dyed pear wood fingerboards. You can see the wood was dyed and it has held up, I don't know how much these were played, but rosewood wears finger divots. I think some of the wood mentioned, maple, Osage orange, persimmon would be great fingerboard material. I do question the dying black so it looks like ebony, some customs agent will be fooled. Bocote is another wood that can be used.

[sblock]

I have seen old instruments from the 20's and later that have dyed pear wood fingerboards. You can see the wood was dyed and it has held up, I don't know how much these were played, but rosewood wears finger divots. I think some of the wood mentioned, maple, Osage orange, persimmon would be great fingerboard material. I do question the dying black so it looks like ebony, some customs agent will be fooled. Bocote is another wood that can be used.

I am not aware of any evidence that U.S. customs agents are being "fooled" by black-dyed wood like maple, pearwood, persimmon, etc. Furthermore, not all of the over 100 species of ebony are covered by CITES, so the agents have to be sophisticated enough to tell these species apart, in many cases. See here.

And finally, the bulk of CITES enforcement is targeting, first and foremost, illegal trade in woods used for making furniture, and secondarily, bulk shipments of tonewoods. Not individual players traveling with their instruments. It's OK to exercise a certain amount of caution, but some folks here on the MC seem to be overdoing it a bit.

There is no reason why one should avoid dying hardwoods black, to avoid ebony use and still get a traditional-looking result. And no, customs agents are not likely to bother you. This kind of speculation seems unwarranted, to me. As you correctly point out., dyed fingerboards have been around a very long time, in fact (since the early part of the last century), and they have not resulted in instrument confiscations at our borders.

[pops1]

I didn't mean to raise concern about custom agents, only as a thought. I think some of the wood is very beautiful in it's original form and dying just to make it look like ebony because it has been done for 100 years, well.......what ever blows your dress up.

[David Houchens]

persimmon peghead veneer finger board and bridge. I like trhem just fine unstained.

[CarlM]

I have made two osage orange fingerboards. The first I have been playing daily for a year and a half with no noticeable wear or problem. It has turned medium brown and will eventually be a nice orange brown from the natural oxidation of the wood.

[David Houchens]

Bernie, those look very nice. My Osage Orange is probably dry enough to try as well. Looking forward to maybe using it on an A mandolin I want to build from some cocobolo I got from James Condino. I think the colors will complement each other well.

[George R. Lane]

Back in the 20's - 40's golf drivers and fairway woods were made of persimmon. It was used because of it's density and hardness and they took a beating. There was an insert made of some plastic material that took the brunt of the impact, hopefully. So I think it should works just fine.

[David Houchens]

Also I have just received quite a few 3/4"x4"x8' boards of Babinga. Have any of y'all used this? Wondering how it will wear as a finger board.

[bbcee]

Is mesquite considered a good substitutes for endangered woods? I always thought that there was very little available, and of what there is, the twistiness of the grain made for only a small percentage useable in instrument making. I think finding straight pieces of Osage Orange is also difficult, but there's much more (relatively) available. I could be wrong ... hm, when was the last time?

Having said that, I have several pieces of mesquite and Osage Orange destined for use as fingerboards. Can't wait to try them!

[JimKo]

[QUOTE=bbcee;1628415]Is mesquite considered a good substitutes for endangered woods? I always thought that there was very little available, and of what there is, the twistiness of the grain made for only a small percentage useable in instrument making.

bbcee, There is plenty of mesquite out there. In fact, in may parts of the great Southwest, it is considered invasive and a nuisance species. I have been in on several large scale mesquite removal projects. As far as finding pieces that were suitable for instrument construction, that would depend on the species and the growing conditions. They are definitely out there though. If you are interested, it would be a good idea to act quickly as "board foot" prices are going up quickly.

[bbcee]

Thanks 10x for the info, @JimKo, I'll definitely get a move on. I do like the feel of it!

[NRMiller1958]

Is mesquite considered a good substitutes for endangered woods? I always thought that there was very little available, and of what there is, the twistiness of the grain made for only a small percentage useable in instrument making. I think finding straight pieces of Osage Orange is also difficult, but there's much more (relatively) available. I could be wrong ... hm, when was the last time?

Having said that, I have several pieces of mesquite and Osage Orange destined for use as fingerboards. Can't wait to try them!

I milled out the fingerboard in the OP from a tree in a back pasture I managed in Texas. I had to pick and choose my trees, but most ranchers are more than happy to get rid of any tree you're willing to haul off. The one I milled out produced enough wood for a half dozen back sets and oodles of necks and fingerboards. I ended up selling about half of it to someone else. I have been amazed how nicely it works and how incredibly stable it is. Here's an A from the same tree. The supply is definitely there.

[Scott Rucker]

I have an open back banjo with a persimmon fingerboard (dyed black) and tone ring (not dyed). The board has no pitting and is still black after 11 years of periodic to semi regular use. I don't know what he used to blacken the board but it worked well. The tapered edge of the tone ring is also still as crisp as when it was new, no visible dings.

[artdeco]

Here are a couple of Desert Ironwood fretboards. Very hard stuff.
Mike A

[Seter]

I have a dulcimer with a dogwood top, have any of y'all used that for a mandolin fingerboard? It's the state tree of a number of eastern states so gives it sort of a local charm, my dulcimer has dogwood flower-shaped soundholes; I think dogwood flower fingerberboard inlays would look cool.

[David Houchens]

CarlM were the finger boards yellow to begin with?

[CarlM]

were the finger boards yellow to begin with?

Yes they were. I have archery bows that I built out of some of it 15 years or so ago that were fairly yellow when they started and are now near the color of cherry.

[dadsaster]

Also I have just received quite a few 3/4"x4"x8' boards of Babinga. Have any of y'all used this? Wondering how it will wear as a finger board.

I've made a few furniture pieces out of it. It is about as hard as rosewood. It isn't hard to work with but it has a fair amount of silica in it which causes it to dull any edge pretty quickly. The board I had finished to a beautiful deep redish brown.