squeeze-chop.mp3
I don't have any recording equipment and capturing this one my phone isn't the best quality. Hopefully, you can hear me pressing the strings down between chops.
Hope it helps.
squeeze-chop.mp3
I don't have any recording equipment and capturing this one my phone isn't the best quality. Hopefully, you can hear me pressing the strings down between chops.
Hope it helps.
Sorry but I did not read all of the posts so some may be a duplication. Long story. I had a a very hard time getting the idea of chopping on the off beat, mostly because I had zero musical back ground and di not understand the difference between the beat and off beat. Once I understood that it was fairly easy. If you count in cut time 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and. The 1 and 2 and is a measure and you chop on the and. Then 2 and 4 and is another measure, again chop on the and. When you tap if you tap you foot on the 1 and raise you toe on the and, that way meet your hand going down to chop meets your toe coming up. A training drill someone gave me was to tap my toe or foot on the beat and clap on the off beat. there is still nothing wrong with hitting the G string on the beat and chopping on the off beat, maybe just dampen the G or hit it lightly. I also cheat off the guitar player but your best friend in a band or jam is a good bass player. They thump the beat and you chop in between. If you starting getting lost just find the bass.
Hi James, While I like Banjo Ben and believe he's got a lot to offer, the vid you posted has little to do with your 'off-beat chopping question.
The Tim O'Brien video Ivan posted addresses your question better. It would have demonstrated it better (IMO) if there had been a bass included in video though.
This guy might be helpful to you also.?. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1ZOv1-wc28
"I play BG so that's what I can talk intelligently about." A line I loved and pirated from Mandoplumb
Found a method of playing on the off beat. Normally I would strum on the G string, but the base-playing school music teacher did not like that approach - this it was throwing him off. He said He saw me double-tapping my foot and thought that was throwing me off. Said nah, the other tap was when I should be strumming. Guess this guy has quirks on how other people play am thinking. So he scooted off over to the side and he wasn't playing normal base thumps, he was playing base like a guitar.
So, I decided to tap on the "Florida" area with my thumb on the beat, then would strum on the off beat. Which seems to work good up until one of the songs was a double beat and I sat it out - fingers were sore anyhow.
The music instructor fella actually noticed and said I did well there. Haven't perfected off beat play style yet, merely found a method that didn't annoy the base player that allowed me to have a bit of fun finally.
However the leader of the group suggested that I play normally like the rest of the group does, up until I learn their songs & know what I am doing - since I'm playing mostly by ear. I kept at it though, and it's different hearing your tone in between theirs.
• Seagull S8 • Weber Y2K6 • David Hudson Bloodwood Didgeridoo (C#) •
James, it's funny, I sometimes take my mandolin to a reg. uke jam and I play on the back beat and it seems to confuse the ukers, especially if I'm leading a tune. They start to try strumming along with me and their playing becomes a big blur.
Yeah, some folks are quirky in how they relate to the group, and recognizing that, plus adapting as needed, can be a VERY useful skill for progress of the whole group. Almost a "life lesson", in fact.
Pretty soon, that "Florida tap" should become fully mental, or internalized, and you'll be moving toward chop-compatible with ANY group! With the ability to recognize quirks, you're gonna get valuable in any group. Not bad progress for just a few days!... decided to tap on the "Florida" area with my thumb on the beat, then would strum on the off beat. Which seems to work ...
- Ed
"Then one day we weren't as young as before
Our mistakes weren't quite so easy to undo
But by all those roads, my friend, we've travelled down
I'm a better man for just the knowin' of you."
- Ian Tyson
All of these " helps " are just a crutch or learning tool. You should get away from them as soon as possible, there will come a time when these helps will get in your way and slow you down or mess you up. A musician should be able to play the off beat as well as the beat just by hearing the tune.
Exacly that's why I said get away from these helps as soon as possible. Sometimes people depend on this kind of stuff until it becomes a problem. Do what ever it takes untill you get the sound in your head then drop them. These kind of things will come around to bite you in the a## if you rely on them too long.
For the record I that discovery only came to me after much frustration, that evening.
The leader did say to let me play normally until I can hang with the group, understand how they play; cause he made motions that my hands were everywhere but where they were supposed to be. That eased the tension, although I still continued to try and get mind to hand functional on the off beat. Tap, strum, tap, strum. It is (trying to) conditioning the mind away from just 'on the beat.'
I understand the idea; it's getting the brain to cooperate as it wants me to strum on the beat - and when I started 'getting it' would slip again. Argh! /grin
We meet on Monday evenings at 6PM. Our church plays on Saturdays, but you never know which time(s) they will play. When we had Chuck Williams in the congregation he would almost ALWAYS play after potluck. Now it is hit or miss. So play time with others is limited.
• Seagull S8 • Weber Y2K6 • David Hudson Bloodwood Didgeridoo (C#) •
The one problem I had was when the music sped up, and that tap/strum technique was too much for me. Fingers tips were sore to I sat it out. Probably could of played normally...
Got the Mandolin Fake Book in today with 300 songs. So now I get to play around with various beats and measures. It is the long, slow, poke-along measures that really make me wonder if we're supposed to play something to fill in the gap, or just wait that long slow gap out. But that's another topic.
• Seagull S8 • Weber Y2K6 • David Hudson Bloodwood Didgeridoo (C#) •
I think now you’re not getting the opportunity to buddy up with the bass to practice offbeat chops and only are woodshedding those on your own things could go slower for you, so you’ll need a substitute option.
You could try using the slow-jam tracks from FBBTs through your hifi to create an immersive practice environment for you to use at your own speed. http://www.fbbts.com/slowjam.html It’s really important to be buried in the actual sound to get these off beat responses accurate rather than roughly ok. If you keep at it for a while it will begin to click. You can choose tunes from that fakebook and alternate between bouts of chopping and playing the melody to relieve the boredom.
Again zone in on the bass notes, wait to hear them play then hit the gap. Just keep trying to hit the gap dead centre. Slow it down enough so you can, then gradually increase each time. Then back it off again to check your accuracy, & ramp it up from there.
Eoin
"Forget that anyone is listening to you and always listen to yourself" - Fryderyk Chopin
Hmm, no way to delete a comment. User error, didn't select a song first. Not heard any of the songs there, so will be something new.
• Seagull S8 • Weber Y2K6 • David Hudson Bloodwood Didgeridoo (C#) •
Eoin
"Forget that anyone is listening to you and always listen to yourself" - Fryderyk Chopin
I had to learn to only chop on the off beats to keep up with fast songs and so my arm doesn't get so tired. It was very awkward at first, still isn't fully natural, but all I did was try it and play along with youtube videos, and make a point to do it at jams. Good luck
OK, this advice is worth about what you pay for it but here's what worked for me. I am a guitar player originally then I ended up with an upright bass. Playing the back beat does not come naturally to me. When I started learning to chop I spent hours listening to all kinds of music and focused on picking out the back beat. In Bluegrass it might end up being mandolin, banjo, fiddle chops or dobro but it's gonna be there. In old Country it's the snare drum. At first you tend to hear the bass on 1 & 3 but listen for the 2 & 4. Concentrate on the 2 & 4 until that's what you hear first. Don't try to play it until you hear it. Here's a song where the bass is rock solid on 1 & 3 with no fanciness and the 2 & 4 is mandolin chop. (Oh, and it helps if you're listening to stuff you like)
https://youtu.be/7lsIpL6yyVQ
Out of tune and out of time.
Did the phantom pick last Monday and when I was in tune with the group, as am having to play by ear, it sounded good playing off the beat. Then too the music teacher wasn't there so I was having a bit more fun.
• Seagull S8 • Weber Y2K6 • David Hudson Bloodwood Didgeridoo (C#) •
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