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Thread: There is NO WAY that pinky is going to make it to the boardwalk!

  1. #1
    en kunnskapssøker James Miller's Avatar
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    Default There is NO WAY that pinky is going to make it to the boardwalk!

    Had this thought at work that perhaps it is time to learn 3rd fingered chords since 2 fingered chords are down good. Looked up Music Moose & MandoLessons, and think I have a slight roadblock...

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    The photo shows relative position of playing the 3rd finger chord of G. The ring finger is touching the D string. Me fingers are only so long!

    There is NO WAY that pinky is going to make it to the boardwalk! (7th fret)


    Guessing I'm limited to 2 fingered chords ... unless there's a way to stretch one's fingers or find some finger extenders?
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    Default Re: There is NO WAY that pinky is going to make it to the boardwa

    Being new to the mandolin I have the same problem. I saw or read somewhere that we make it much harder by rolling the mandolin up to see the fretboard taking that g string farther away from our pinkie. By rolling it back away (looking more at the side of the neck) we bring the g string (and seventh fret) back a little closer to the fingers and almost within reach.

    It's still a stretch but that tip helped me. I hope I explained it good enough and if I run across my source I'll give credit where it is due.

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    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: There is NO WAY that pinky is going to make it to the boardwa

    It looks like both the bases of thumb and forefinger are glued to the neck.
    That's not how it's supposed to work - the left hand is not for holding the mandolin. The thumb can stay where it is, but rather as a pivot to turn the whole hand around, so your pinky does not have to make it alone.
    For a demonstration, see my pinky at 0:21 in this video (I am the one on the left And that is an OM, considerably larger than a mandolin).
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    two t's and one hyphen fatt-dad's Avatar
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    Default Re: There is NO WAY that pinky is going to make it to the boardwa

    you can do it!

    f-d
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    Default Re: There is NO WAY that pinky is going to make it to the boardwa

    Adding to Mike’s post saying to keep the body nice and vertical, you need to bring your hand around the neck too for any stretches.
    Keep a nice flat wrist with the mandolin neck out from the left hand side, so everything isn’t cramped up before you begin.

    You’ll never win trying to work against your body, set the instrument to work with your body, it’s how they’re designed.
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  8. #6

    Default Re: There is NO WAY that pinky is going to make it to the boardwa

    There are other ways to play the G chord without resorting to that atrocious form.

    You can do a G chop this way: 4523, from bottom string (G) to top string (E). Ring finger on the 4 (B), pinky on the 5 (G), index on the 2 (B), and middle finger on the 3 (G).

    Or try this: 455x. Those notes are B, G, and D, which are the 3, 1, and 5 notes of the chord. x means you dampen that string (don't play it). This form allows you to switch to a G7 easily: 435x. That G note drops to an A, which is the dominant 7th in the G scale. Even though there is no G in that 3 finger chord, trust that someone else will play it (bass, guitar, accordian, bodhran).
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    Chu Dat Frawg Eric C.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: There is NO WAY that pinky is going to make it to the boardwa

    Start with a 4 fingered B chord. Same as the G chord just 4 frets closer to the bridge and less distance to span. Once that's comfortable, move a fret at a time towards the G chord.

    You have to train your fingers.

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    Default Re: There is NO WAY that pinky is going to make it to the boardwa

    Your fingers will learn to stretch out in time. My thumb to pinky span is 1" longer on my right hand compared to left

    455x works great for G rhythm chop or otherwise. I would put my energy into learning to play 3 finger chords while muting the E strings. Flat right hand angled down the fretboard makes it easy to mute the E strings and allow chop rhythm on 3 finger chords.

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    Default Re: There is NO WAY that pinky is going to make it to the boardwa

    I have long fingers and even so (I just checked), when I'm doing a full G chop chord, my thumb is at the third fret, not down there by the nut.

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    Struggle Monkey B381's Avatar
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    Default Re: There is NO WAY that pinky is going to make it to the boardwa

    Quote Originally Posted by James Miller View Post
    Had this thought at work that perhaps it is time to learn 3rd fingered chords since 2 fingered chords are down good. Looked up Music Moose & MandoLessons, and think I have a slight roadblock...

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DSC02108.JPG 
Views:	319 
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ID:	164154

    The photo shows relative position of playing the 3rd finger chord of G. The ring finger is touching the D string. Me fingers are only so long!

    There is NO WAY that pinky is going to make it to the boardwalk! (7th fret)


    Guessing I'm limited to 2 fingered chords ... unless there's a way to stretch one's fingers or find some finger extenders?
    Read this elsewhere.....on Facebook I do believe....Dirk McDirkale here...well, there...well...somewhere. Howdy Jim.

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    Default Re: There is NO WAY that pinky is going to make it to the boardwa

    Quote Originally Posted by Bertram Henze View Post
    It looks like both the bases of thumb and forefinger are glued to the neck.
    That's not how it's supposed to work - the left hand is not for holding the mandolin. The thumb can stay where it is, but rather as a pivot to turn the whole hand around, so your pinky does not have to make it alone.
    For a demonstration, see my pinky at 0:21 in this video (I am the one on the left And that is an OM, considerably larger than a mandolin).
    Bertram is right..don't hold the neck like your choking a chicken orwhatever,,lighten up and swivel your hand using that crook in your thumb and you should easily make it with some practice...

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    Registered User Roger Adams's Avatar
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    Default Re: There is NO WAY that pinky is going to make it to the boardwa

    Try putting the pinky down first and so on.
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  16. #13
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: There is NO WAY that pinky is going to make it to the boardwa

    Quote Originally Posted by T.D.Nydn View Post
    ...choking a chicken...
    must remember that image
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    Default Re: There is NO WAY that pinky is going to make it to the boardwa

    You need to consider the anatomy of your hand.

    First off, if you make a fist and really look at where the lowest joint in the pinky is, you'll see it's lower than you think. In order to maximize the reach of your pinky, you need to make sure a portion of your palm just below the pinky is above the level of the fret board.

    Second, look at the slope of your fingers. If you look at your palm, starting with the middle finger, there is an angle created by the fingers where they attach to the palm. Most people's fingers slow away from the middle finger toward the pinky. The angle of the mandolin neck when it is in your hand should match the slope of your fingers.

    Lastly, keeping the first two points in mind, try to reverse engineer the chop chord by putting your pinky down first (with some palm exposed and at the right angle). Once that finger is placed, work your way to putting the other fingers down. It can be uncomfortable at ffirst so go slow.

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    Default Re: There is NO WAY that pinky is going to make it to the boardwa

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly Adams View Post
    Try putting the pinky down first and so on.
    Seriously. This works. It seems like it wouldn't. It works because the spaces between fingers get apportioned differently and the hand arranges itself differently. Instead of a pinky stretch, it becomes a stretch apportioned along all fingers.

    In fact if I just measure the span of my hand, if I plant the pinky first I can measure about a half an inch more to the thumb, than if I plant the thumb first and measure to the pinky.

    Wierd, but its true.
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    Default Re: There is NO WAY that pinky is going to make it to the boardwa

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Wilson View Post
    Your fingers will learn to stretch out in time. My thumb to pinky span is 1" longer on my right hand compared to left.
    opps. Typo. Left hand span is greater

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    Struggle Monkey B381's Avatar
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    Default Re: There is NO WAY that pinky is going to make it to the boardwa

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    Seriously. This works. It seems like it wouldn't. It works because the spaces between fingers get apportioned differently and the hand arranges itself differently. Instead of a pinky stretch, it becomes a stretch apportioned along all fingers.

    In fact if I just measure the span of my hand, if I plant the pinky first I can measure about a half an inch more to the thumb, than if I plant the thumb first and measure to the pinky.

    Wierd, but its true.
    That is freaky. I just did it, my left definitely stretches more than my right.....I'm a FREAK!

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    Registered User Tom Wright's Avatar
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    Default Re: There is NO WAY that pinky is going to make it to the boardwa

    Beginners usually make this mistake, thinking the stretch is like spreading your fingers as you look at your palm. They do splay apart, but notice that when you curl them the tips are again close. Mandolin hand position is more like violin than guitar. Guitar players' palms are facing the neck. Violin and mandolin players' palms are turned toward the bridge. The stretch is actually having (for example) the index finger curled tightly while the pinky is straight.

    As has been pointed out, you can try doing it "backwards", that is, find the far, difficult note, and stretch back to the easy one,

    Here's the big stretch:

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    Default Re: There is NO WAY that pinky is going to make it to the boardwa

    Also, I found it helpful when I was first working on 4 finger chop chords, to start up at a Bb or B, where the reach is easier/less, than with that first position G. I then gradually worked my hand back down the fret board. Agree that placing the pinky first helps as well, and, as Dale mentioned, make sure your hand/thumb positioning is correct. I don't have a mandolin with me presently, but suspect the base of my thumb is up around the 2nd or 3rd fret when I do the 4 finger G chop as well.

    Also, patience, young mandolin warrior! It takes days to weeks (depending on you, how much you practice, etc) to get a 4 finger G cleanly fretted. If Sierra Hull, with her tiny stature, can do it, you can, too. Granted, she's a phenomenal talent, young, and nimble, but still tiny! It's also worth noting that, though she can use that chord, she doesn't very often anymore, it seems, opting for others that may fit better into the flow of the music (like some of those suggested above). What's funny to me is, I worked so hard on getting that 4 finger chop down, that my brain still goes there when I see a G. I'm having to retrain myself to use some of the alternate fingerings discussed above as well.

    Addendum: Nice pic, Tom, that pretty much says it all!
    Chuck

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    Default Re: There is NO WAY that pinky is going to make it to the boardwa

    This is where the benefits of having a real time in person lesson with an experienced mandolin instructor (rather than some guitar teacher guy who thinks he can play anything with strings...) come into play. As others have mentioned already, it's not the size of your hand that is letting you down here, rather it is due to less than ideal left hand technique. It's difficult for novice players to notice stuff like that if they are relying on YouTube or online lessons that don't at least include any kind of Skype time with the instructor. Any good instructor at an in person lesson would immediately be able to identify areas where your left or right hand technique need tweaking so as to set you up to succeed.
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  27. #21

    Default Re: There is NO WAY that pinky is going to make it to the boardwa

    The human adaptative trait is amazing. Our resiliancy, restorative capacities, and transformative power is immense. Alchemy is really our nature. Dont give up on your pinky yet! Learning to play most any instrument is rife with ergonomic challenges; learning to express through any instrument is rife with still other challenges; etc. If it were easy, we wouldn't need ableton.

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    Default Re: There is NO WAY that pinky is going to make it to the boardwa

    J.M. a great deal of reach is in technique and where / how you hold your instrument. It does get better .... I have to reach for the seventh fret but I can get there as needed. R/
    I love hanging out with mandolin nerds . . . . . Thanks peeps ...

  29. #23
    en kunnskapssøker James Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: There is NO WAY that pinky is going to make it to the boardwa

    Will have to fight the dragon (belly) to play more vertically. Thanks for the advice.

    The photo was not the best as is hard for me to find a good position for the camera in relation to my fingers. Even tried from the shoulder although had to lay back some to get a photo. Having a large dragon belly sort of defeats playing anything vertically, as there is a hill there.

    Can just barely manage this position. Will keep at it. Not trying to choke the chicken (Chicken Choker made me laugh, old CBer term for a certain Golden Eagle type microphone) it is that my thumb is sore from work and using a Nostromo n52 on the computer than I rest the thumb here as it is more comfortable doing the "stretch".
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    Is a wee bit difficult to stretch with shorter fingers. Times like this I wished I had Alien fingers... (long and slender).
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    What is odd is that I can do this G/C chord easier with the pinky as it does not have so much meat on the finger tip.

    Usually I use the thumb behind the neck for 2 fingered chord until it starts to ache, then I let my hand rest in the neck. I have a strap that holds the mandolin around me, but I'm playing over a hill too.

    $70/mo for mandolin lessons is too much for me right now. Pickers Paradise has a woman instructor that plays mandolin and even built her own - or so the legend goes. There are others that a re a bit cheaper but they are not specifically mandolin teachers.

    There is one fellow over at Greif's Music Center that comes down from McCall every so often. He can play a mandolin. maybe his rates will be more affordable.
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  30. #24

    Default Re: There is NO WAY that pinky is going to make it to the boardwa

    Your mandolin neck should not be touching the crook between your thumb and index finger like that. I have medium sized hands and I have to put my thumb on the back of the mandolin neck to reach some chords. It's technically bad technique, because it can lead to tendonitis, but if you keep your thumb loose and the joint unlocked, it works just fine.

    But having the neck nestled way in between your thumb and your index finger like that will definitely hinder your ability to play chords. Try resting the side of your thumb on the edge of the fretboard.
    The fretboard should be more or less centered with your thumbnail.

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  32. #25
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    Default Re: There is NO WAY that pinky is going to make it to the boardwa

    Here is really good advice on positioning the left hand. From about 1:30 on Mike lays it all out.
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