Customs and duty from England?

[RustyPickup]

Has anyone had any instruments shipped over to the US from England lately? I was thinking about getting a mandolin from a private individual there, but wasn't sure about customs and duty and that stuff. I guess Trevor from TAMCO doesn't ship to the States anymore. Anyone know why? Thanks in advance for any advice or information

[OneChordTrick]

A quick Google found this https://www.simplyduty.com/import-calculator/ don know if it helps. You put in the amount you paid plus shipping and insurance cost plus the type of goods and it returns the cost.

[trevor]

Its too complicated with the paperwork, you need 8 pages of documents!

[Ivan Kelsall]

Trevor got there before i could answer for him !. I think that it's possibly pretty much the same for the folks in the US,as it is for us in the UK.

You'll have an allowance in 'value' on which you'll pay no duty / tax etc. - above that you'll be liable for tax / duty etc. I know that if i order an item from the US,the approx cost is as follows :- Cost of the item + shipping cost / insurance = total cost. I then have to pay ''approx'' 25% of the total cost in tax to the UK government. On top of that,i might have to play a UK Postal 'handling charge' of £8,unless the item is so large as to be delivered by FedEx (God forbid - in the UK they're crap !) / Royal Mail,or any other freight Co.

I know pretty well what it's cost me in the past,but in the US ? - i'm just guessing. Personally,i'd contact US Customs & ask them - it's the ONLY way that you'll really get a handle on the possible cost. To do that however,you'd need to know exactly what the 'cost to the sender' was going to be = item cost + shipping + insurance. That would give the US Customs folk the info.to calculate the full cost to you. As shipping is usually calculated by weight,the item would need boxing & weighing to begin with,then you'd add the insurance cost - that's the cost you need to know,


Ivan

[Tavy]

Just to say that there's no issue shipping to the US as long as there's no Rosewood (or other CITES protected materials) or mother of pearl. Once you have either of those, then shipping into the US get's mighty hard. Trevor did very kindly offer to explain the paperwork to me once - but as soon as he mentioned 8 pages I just rolled my eyes and decided it wasn't worth the hassle - interesting (and sad) to see that Trevor's come round to the same POV!

With regard to import duty - talk to your local customs office - people have told me that they're very helpful in explaining this stuff. I can only say that from the other end of the transaction, instruments are delivered to the US in about 6 days, which is not bad considering. Just make sure that the seller puts all the details and invoices or ebay sale details on the outside of the parcel for easy inspection. Also if the seller uses ParcelForce, then it's delivered by USPS your end, and the ParcelForce number works with the USPS online tracker which means you should get a good idea of when it will arrive.

So far the only parcels I've had delayed at customs are one going to Japan, and one coming from Spain that had some coiled up fretwire with it - I think the X-Ray operator freaked out at the site of coiled wire and decided it needed opening up - still, at least they didn't call the bomb squad

[Tom Wright]

Buchanan shipped a mando to me, and I had to fill out a Lacey Act form online, two pages. Duty amounted to about $80. Not a big deal, as we had avoided rosewood in the design.

ParcelForce were helpful in the Lacey Act form, advising me what to put in the fields.

[Folkmusician.com]

If it comes in under tariff code: 9202 It would would be 3.2% duty.

The CITES regulations are the tough one, There is a surprising amount of listed materials in most mandolins (including those that do not have a rosewood fingerboard or bridge). For me, this was the final factor in stopping shipping out of country.

[George R. Lane]

Buy a mandolin from the US and then the custom problems are moot.

[bruce.b]

I was considering getting a mandolin from Australia and the shipping cost on the luthier’s website stated a cost of 640 Aus. I didn’t follow up on this, though.

[RustyPickup]

Thanks, everyone. I really appreciate all the responses and help. You all gave me some great advice and tips. I'll let you know how it all turns out!

[jimmy powells]

Nearly all instruments have pearl dot markers so that is an issue. Secondly, if buying from USA to Uk, find a Gibson over 100 years old and then you only have duty at 2.5% as instrument is classed as antique so no Vat. However you do need proper verification re this. I bought a 1915 F4 tail end of December 2015. I had all sorts of bother with DHL but David Harvey of Gibson helped out with an email confirming that not only was it over 100 years old going by 'sale date', it was mostly likely actually made in 2013 or 2014. Saved me several hundred pounds.

[RustyPickup]

Hello, again, everyone!
I am still interested in buying a certain mandolin from a private individual in the England (roughly in the $600 ballpark). However, as we all know by now, last Fall saw some big changes in CITES regulations. And it turns out this mandolin (though not vintage) has a rosewood fingerboard and bridge (but not Brazilian, apparently). So, is this a deal breaker? Is this going to be so complicated or expensive as to be not worth it? Has anyone had any experience buying a mandolin from the UK lately? Thanks for any advice or information ...

[Jeff Mando]

Not sure about sending from UK to USA, but I send instruments from the USA to International locations all the time with no problems -- so far -- been doing it 30 years. My advice, be as vague as possible on paperwork. Don't go asking for trouble, in other words. I would be as brief as possible. I often write "used musical instrument, with case" and if it shows a lot of wear I might include the words "for repair." Downplay its appeal, if possible. I would NEVER write "1918 Gibson A-4 with original Geib case -- contains Brazilian rosewood, ebony, and ivory." That is asking for trouble. Don't give them the information to hang you -- make them work for it. Think smart, like a fox -- or at least like a smart lawyer.

It wasn't mentioned on the other thread, but anyone who has ever sold anything internationally has been asked to lie about the customs value. Some buyers ask you to declare the instrument "a gift." I would never recommend that. Especially since I am known as a seller of instruments at our local post office, UPS, and FedEx. They would know I don't send "gifts" to people I don't know in foreign countries. You can, however, declare a lower value within reason. Keep in mind, you can't insure the package for more than the declared value. It wouldn't make sense, would it? And, you can't declare a $5000 instrument for $50 because it might backfire on you. So, within reason.....common sense.

[Folkmusician.com]

For me, it would depend on the deal I was getting on the mandolin, and if both of you are prepared to see the transition through.

To give a counterpoint to Jeff, I stopped sending instruments internationally, once Rosewood was added to CITES in 2017.

Fair chance, you could sneak it through customs, but it is very clear that this is illegal. A private party, doing a single transaction is probably not going to get in actual criminal trouble, and may not have the instrument held, but do you or the seller want to take the chance? Insurance does not cover things being confiscated by customs.

If you want to do it legally...

Here is the outline:
https://www.fws.gov/international/pe...struments.html

Here is the form:
https://www.fws.gov/international/pd...-specimens.pdf

The permit will cost $75 and you need to allow a few months for it to be approved. This is where patience comes in and both parties need to be willing to wait the whole ordeal out.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Personally,i'd contact the Customs folk directly & simply ask - after getting the full info. on what sort of Rosewood is involved,although it seems that ALL species are covered by the new ruling.

Here's some info. - https://reverb.com/uk/news/new-cites...sewood-species

Here's how it affects us in the UK, & i suspect that it'll be pertty much the same in the USA - https://blog.andertons.co.uk/guitars/cites
Ivan

[Tavy]

I don't know the details, but Trevor (TAMCO) found a way to ship Rosewood without the importer getting a permit - I gather it was a whole lot of paperwork at the senders end though

At $600 I think you're either taking Jeff's route, or walking away. Sorry!

[Ivan Kelsall]

I can buy MOP easily from a fairly local Luthier supply store - https://tonetechluthiersupplies.co.u...other+of+pearl So i don't understand why MOP dots on an instrument should pose any difficulty - as long as it's legal. All the MOP from this store is imported,
Ivan

[peter.coombe]

I can buy MOP easily from a fairly local Luthier supply store - https://tonetechluthiersupplies.co.u...other+of+pearl So i don't understand why MOP dots on an instrument should pose any difficulty - as long as it's legal. All the MOP from this store is imported,
Ivan

It should not pose any difficulty because pearl oysters are not endangered and in my country are farmed by the millions by the pearl industry. Abalone is fished for food, and the shell is a side product. However, there is a problem importing and exporting shell in the USA. No other country, as far as I am aware, imposes the ridiculous rules for shell that the USA does through the Lacey Act. It does not matter how much shell is involved, but to import or export any shell material to the USA the USA resident needs to get an import/export permit (there is a fee involved), and submit the relevant US F&W form. The item needs to go across the border at designated ports of entry, and is supposed to be inspected (most probably is not). Personal items are exempt, but sales of music instruments are not. This has stopped dead international sales of small quantities of shell material from the USA, and has made importing/exporting individual musical instruments to the USA painful and expensive. It caused some consternation amongst Luthiers (including me), but there are other sources for shell in countries other than the USA. I now get my shell inlay materials from Australia and Vietnam. The US government has shot itself in the foot with this one, but it has been caught up in the bigger picture of trade of wildlife.

[peter.coombe]

As I understand it, according to CITES Appendix II rules (i.e. if the rosewood is not Brazilian rosewood), all that is required is for the sender to do the CITES paperwork. The receiver does not need to do any CITES paperwork.

[jimmy powells]

I'm in UK and a friend of mine recently bought a Gilchrist A style from Carter and because it had pearl dots they needed a certificate. They went 50/50 on the cost. I recently contacted Elderly re a Gibson A-5L and almost immediately was told $130 for the certificate re the pearl. As it tuned out someone had put the instrument on hold and took it so I just missed out. It certainly adds to the cost and if it was a £500 instrument then it's around 20% which kills the sale no doubt.

[DHopkins]

Tell 'em it's a clarinet.

[colorado_al]

For $600, just ship it and cross your fingers. Likely it will not be a problem coming from one individual to another

[Ivan Kelsall]

Hi Peter - All the MOP sold by Tonetech UK is sourced in Australia & is perfectly legal. It does seem that the US has more rigid rules concerning MOP though,. I must say that it would play directly into my hands if i were to have a mandolin ''custom built'' for me in the US as my favourite fingerboard inlay is NONE. As for the headstock inlays - nice contrasting wooden inlays would surfice,
Ivan

[colorado_al]

I know that Mark Franzke built some mandolins for Trevor at TAMCO in the UK. He used engineered stone instead of MOP in order to avoid the issue.

If it is a great mandolin and worth the price, find a cut rate flight to London and go pick it up. Then on your return, claim it as personal property on your customs form, not a purchase.
Book on https://wowair.us/ to Gatwick for a 2 night stay and you can usually get a flight for $300 or less, if you're flexible

[RustyPickup]

Hello, again, everyone!
I am still interested in buying a certain mandolin from a private individual in the England (roughly in the $600 ballpark). However, as we all know by now, last Fall saw some big changes in CITES regulations. And it turns out this mandolin (though not vintage) has a rosewood fingerboard and bridge (but not Brazilian, apparently). So, is this a deal breaker? Is this going to be so complicated or expensive as to be not worth it? Has anyone had any experience buying a mandolin from the UK lately? Thanks for any advice or information ...

I want thank everyone again for all their advice and suggestions. You've given us a lot to think about. Maybe in the end a trip to the UK would be the easiest -- and most fun! -- option.