Another varnish question...

**TJ.** · Jan-16-2018, 1:27pm

Hi Everyone. I just found out that the water based finish KTM-9 from Luthiers Mercantile is no longer available. Does anyone have any reports on the oil based KTM-SV spar varnish? And if this is no good either, is there any new finish available that doesn't stink? (I have a small shop with limited ventilation) Thanks!

http://www.lmii.com/products/finishi...3-spar-varnish

**violinvic** · Jan-16-2018, 7:37pm

Why not just use spirit or oil violin varnish. Just curious? ??

**rcc56** · Jan-16-2018, 10:27pm

Just about every finish I have used has a strong odor until cured, except French polished shellac. Oil varnish odors probably won't give you cancer, though.

You could always build a drying cabinet to help contain some of the odors. Or even weather strip the door of an old kitchen cabinet.

Lynn Dudenbostel has been using Pratt and Lambert "38 Varnish" for years. I know that he doesn't like to breathe lacquer . . .

**multidon** · Jan-17-2018, 9:07am

If Rolfe Gerhardt uses it, it should be a good product. It confuses me that it seems to be both oil and water based, though. I guess anything is possible with advanced chemistry. Stew Mac carries General Finishes High Performance water based topcoat, which they claim is the best water based finish they ever used. Probably it is much like KTM-9. Just like KTM-9 it is suggested that it should be sprayed, but if you brush use a foam brush. I have never used it but if Stew Max carries it it should be good. Other low odor finishes that are good for musical instruments include Danish Oil (in reality a wiping varnish), Tru Oil (a self polymerizing oil including linseed and others), and of course the violin varnishes mentioned above. One big downside of the violin varnishes is that there is a big learning curve with those. Oil violin varnish requires a couple of months to complete a finishing schedule due to the long curing time between coats before you cans uff it and put on your next coat. It’s also easy to end up with witness lines. Spirit varnish dries more quickly but has its own learning curve. Behlen Master Gel is is a wipe on varnish that is virtually goof proof. It doesn’t run because of its gel consistency, is low odor, and cures quickly. It’s easy to make your own wiping varnish. I have done this with great success. Just mix your favorite oil based varnish with equal parts of mineral spirits and pure tune oil. You can substitute boiled linseed oil for the tung oil if you wish, it will work well too.

**Tavy** · Jan-17-2018, 1:02pm

Not a varnish, but water based and low-odour: EnduroVar.

**multidon** · Jan-17-2018, 2:07pm

Enduro-var is a great finish, but just be aware that it has a slight ambering effect.

**Tavy** · Jan-17-2018, 2:09pm

Originally Posted by multidon

Enduro-var is a great finish, but just be aware that it has a slight ambering effect.

Ditto for TruOil, Danish Oil and Shellac.

**bpatrick** · Jan-17-2018, 4:00pm

I have used KTM-9, General Finishes High Performance Water Based Topcoat, and Target Coatings EM6000. They all seem similar. Most recently, I finished the two mandolins shown in the photos below with the GF topcoat. These were sprayed. Of all these finishes, I believe I prefer the EM6000, however like I said, they are all similar. The EM6000 might be just slightly harder. I like the water based finishes because I don't like to breathe nitro cellulose. Water based lacquer also goes on quickly and can be buffed out in about 1 week. It seems to get harder over time. I'm currently refinishing a mandolin I made about 10 years ago. I was never happy with the coloring. I may use a spirit varnish and French polish on it.

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**rcc56** · Jan-21-2018, 3:06pm

If you're not building for profit from high volume or repairing for impatient customers, what's the hurry?

The Tru-Oil thing never added up to me. Seems to me like it's more intensive than French polish.

A couple of drops ONLY of Japan drier has become a useful aid to my finish work. It's compatible with shellac, oil varnish, nitro, and a lot of other things. I only use it occasionally, though. Use too much and you get checking or too much red in the finish.

**GaryTimmons** · Jan-27-2018, 5:12pm

Hey TJ, I shared some emails with Rolfe Gerhardt a couple years ago regarding the varnish he was using. He was using Target brand finish EM 2000 (http://www.targetcoatings.com) and he recommended the use of a HVLP spray gun. He was using a Walcom spray gun I don't remember the model. I'm using a Walcom EGO hvlp touch up gun. I've used the EM 2000 and like the looks of it. I didn't want the stink and toxic fumes. I've worked around solvents and various painting systems in the boat industry and didn't want any more exposure.
I use Targets EM 6000 most of the time. It even has the ability to burn in like nitro for repairs and buff out really beautiful. The 2000 doesen't burn in and you can get witness lines just like oil varnish. I highly recommend it.