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Thread: i bought a Schertler contact mic, let me tell my intial thoughts

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    Default i bought a Schertler contact mic, let me tell my intial thoughts

    I ought to post a pic, but I wont , at least just yet.
    if you're dying, go to Schertler.com and find the mando pick up, P48m.

    I know from time to time theres an interest, and I know too, not many folks have reviewed Schertlers.

    price $325 US incl shipping, ordered directly from Schertler Swtz. on line. Arrived postage and duty paid, in two days!!!!

    description- a condenser microphone , about the size of a nickel/quarter, and about as thick as three nickels, very light weight, and, importantly , for me, it attaches by means of an inert, reaction proof putty. comes in a small soft sided zippered book like container, with pockets to store the mic away from the cord and heavy xlr mic plug. room to store the reusable putty too. putty comes in a small clear round lidded container. I think the key to longevity with the putty are clean hands and instrument surface.

    attachment; pinch a piece of the green putty, (similar to artists soft gum eraser) abou t the size of a garbanzo bean, roll into a thin snake, and encircle the back outside edge of the mic. press lightly but firmly until the mic touches the top of the instrument. this creates a very firm attachment, and dampens and isolates the mic itself. SO how strong a fix? imagine gooey bubble gum. It pulls off with about that force.

    the mic has a super thin mic cord with an three pin mic xlr end. cord is about 6 ft. because the cord is thin and light, its not cumbersome.

    sound; I bought the mic voiced for mandolin, but it appears to have identical specs as the guitar version. this is a P48 type mic. That means IT NEEDS 48v phantom power to operate. No, a DI preamp for baggs, or other peizo types DOESNT work. not a jot. No phantom power, no sound. it is identical in concept as expecting stereo speakers to work without electricity.

    the sound.....it sounds just like my mandolin! not boxy not tinny not shrill. it is like a mic. the sound is natural, and transparent.

    I placed it on the lower bass bout, outside edge, and ran the cord under the tailpiece for a bit of added protection against an inadvertent pull.

    and, I also put it on my martin dred, and with a little eq, was not surprisingly, great sound, but, subject to feedback. Again very natural sound. entirely different than a piezo, even with a DI.

    I haven't gigged with it yet. I imagine the cord will be more cumbersome than simply standing in front of a mic. Certainly less convenient than a baggs or K and K, with a body mount jack. why? cos ive got a 6ft length of cord and hefty xlr end hanging off my mando when the pick up is mounted. Not so bad if you have a dedicated mando. not so bad if you have occasional need for a mic.
    and, imho, not too much more in price, if one considers the total cost of a peizo type and DI.

    I opted for this because, when I have been in front of mics, I find I move and sometimes my mando gets out of the sweet spot, or entirely too soft. I wanted to go into the board direct.

    And............importantly, I have a few mandos, none of which I wanted to drill or glue, or mess with a carpenter jack (as ive heard these can not always stay put). The mic can be attached, left on, removed, etc etc and wont harm varnish or nitro. So, the fact that there was the ability to use it on multiple instruments , or not at all, was the real factor.

    Another factor, was to be able to use lighter gauge strings without the loss of projection. ill let you know. currently JT 74s. may go back to TI lights, as I love the playability and flat wind.

    I'm not sure if this is better. its about the same as a decent pencil mic, and, is less easy to use in certain venues, settings, due to the absolute need for phantom power. But, as of late , on stage, im finding going direct into the board seems to be the best resulting sound. I recently played a multi amercana band showcase and another mando player had one, and I thought his sound was good, and, a Schertler was what he used.

    IMHO, it sounds better than a baggs or k and k, but, only marginally when the former are DI'd and eq'd. I have a piezo on my Rigel and the DI, and have a Weber with K and K at my disposal, and I can say , even through an instrument amp, theres a big difference in sound. simply, a very loud acoustic mando sound, uncolored.

    It is a mic and therefor, sensitive to any inadvertent contact with the mando, ie sleeve buttons, a loose pick guard rattling, etc.

    I want to add, that phantom power supplies are available, big price range, few offerings. I used my old Peavy PV 6 mini mixer, which has a phantom power option button, and it works great, allowing me to also use guitar amps instead of a real PA. and the PV 6 is inexpensive, especially used.

    I have gigs coming soon, and, ill follow up with an "in action" report, LOL.
    nowhere to hide now.............every bloody note is out front, every clam......
    Last edited by stevedenver; Jan-11-2018 at 7:31pm.

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    Default Re: i bought a Schertler contact mic, let me tell my intial thoug

    If you use a tone guard take it off to perform, it will feedback easier with the tone guard on. I used to use one, but ended up with a K&K and have been a very satisfied customer. Mine did not require phantom power and that may have been a difference. A piezo requires a preamp, a known fact, but there is a huge difference in preamps and I went thru 4 to get one I really like. Another two that are ok, one better than the other, and one that I never use. Will be eagerly awaiting you review after gigging with it.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  4. #3

    Default Re: i bought a Schertler contact mic, let me tell my intial thoug

    Quote Originally Posted by pops1 View Post
    If you use a tone guard take it off to perform, it will feedback easier with the tone guard on. I used to use one, but ended up with a K&K and have been a very satisfied customer. Mine did not require phantom power and that may have been a difference. A piezo requires a preamp, a known fact, but there is a huge difference in preamps and I went thru 4 to get one I really like. Another two that are ok, one better than the other, and one that I never use. Will be eagerly awaiting you review after gigging with it.
    no tone guard. I don't care for the looks, and, if I need xtra mando blast, i will hold the mando away from my bod. love the resonanace, but, not the feedback. I tend to do this 'hold away' thing more in jams than on stage. when I do im in the "zone" LOL, loving the instrumental and vocal mix, and the sound of my mando........

    I use a Baggs venue DI with the piezos, and, other than the tuner (which is meh) its a nice DI, with a boost and mute, and lots of eq options.

  5. #4

    Default Re: i bought a Schertler contact mic, let me tell my intial thoug

    When I gig with my old non-phantom powered Schertler with a similar thin cord with XLR end, I attach it to a regular mic cord, wind up the thin loose cable, and stuff the thin cable and the XLR connections into my back pocket. That way, if you step on the mic cable, it will yank on your pants pocket not on the pickup on your mandolin.
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    Default Re: i bought a Schertler contact mic, let me tell my intial thoug

    I also use a Zoom A3 for some EQ, a bit of reverb, or whatever effects sound good to you. It will also provide phantom power and has a mic XLR input.
    2010 Heiden A5, 2020 Pomeroy oval A, 2013 Kentucky KM1000 F5, 2012 Girouard A Mandola w ff holes, 2001 Old Wave A oval octave
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    Default Re: i bought a Schertler contact mic, let me tell my intial thoug

    FYI, we shared this with our Schertler contact, something we do with a lot of industry people when discussions arise around their products. They asked us to post a response for them. We hesitate to do this because then people think it's our responsibility to be a communication link between manufacturers and retailers so if anyone has future questions I'll ask them to register and post.

    --------------

    The DYN 48 is NOT a condenser mic (which would make much more feedback), but a electrodynamic transducer like a turntable moving coil pickup. The DYN 48 features a integrated active DI and preamp which get supplied by the phantom power.

    Thanks you, also to Steve, and hello from Switzerland

    Stephan Schertler
    CEO, electronic design

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    Default Re: i bought a Schertler contact mic, let me tell my intial thoug

    My mistake. I called it a condensor due to my research on "what is phantom power?". In those explanations,the term condensor mic was used for mics requiring phantom power, so i carelessly used it.

    I stand corrected, and am sorry for any material point being mis stated. As im not a sound techie, i posted my general thoughts.

    In any event, at this point in my experience, imho, Schertler makes a great mic, and service is flawless.

    Thank you Herr Schertler!

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    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: i bought a Schertler contact mic, let me tell my intial thoug

    The passive Dyn M has been revised to be smaller, since I got mine many years ago..
    I now also have a installed one, too.

    IMO more versatile , because it does not need phantom power, and hot enough signal
    an XLR to 1/4" adapter without matching transformer, (Although I Got a switchable one..)

    lets it run through electric guitar stuff and Amps well enough..



    AFAIK a Mic level signal does not need a DI, they are there to reduce higher level signals like electric guitars, to match a mixer with just Microphone Channels.

    At least I see them used that way .


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    Default Re: i bought a Schertler contact mic, let me tell my intial thoug

    The first couple of years I had the Dyn-M I loved the sound but used it maybe 3-4 times/yr, found the installation process cumbersome and having one more wire onstage to get wrapped around stuff...just annoying. And I already had a system of using a condensor mic clamped onto the side of the gooseneck stand I had my vocal mic on, which provided decent sound though was more feedback-prone And not as bright or full as the Dyn-M.

    More recently I’ve taken to using the Dyn-M for all amplified performances, I’ve just gotten used to setting it up quickly and its easy to toss the little black case in my gear bag —the case itself is a well-thought-out system for storing a small delicate expensive item with a permanently attached thin cable. I also plug it into a regular 10’ xlr cable so I will have room to route it safely, and usually it goes straight into the board.

    Never seen the phantom power requirement as a problem since pp is pretty much universally available in modern sound equipment.

  13. #10

    Default Re: i bought a Schertler contact mic, let me tell my intial thoug

    “ a electrodynamic transducer like a turntable moving coil pickup.”

    I’m not a huge techie either so I don’t really know what this means. Is he saying its not a mic, or is it a dynamic mic with additional DI circuitry baked in, or what does this pickup pick up? Sound, vibration, electromagnetic waves, Klingon death star particles, sunbeams, what?

    I have long thought it is actually a microphone, because the contact side looks like a mic, and the putty keeps it from actually contacting the soundboard, but...a guy with a National RM1 wanted to try it, we put it on the metal front of the RM1, and got nothing. Not a Sausage! If it was a mic, it would have picked up something, there is plenty of sound on an RM1! Illumination please ye wise ones.

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    Default Re: i bought a Schertler contact mic, let me tell my intial thoug

    A moving coil pickup, well if you put a magnet inside of a winding of wire as the magnet moves inside the coil it induces electricity. Since the magnet is moving according to sound the induced signal is of that sound. An electric guitar pickup works similar. The string on an electric guitar moving thru the magnetic field of the pickup induces a signal into the wires wrapped around the magnet of the pickup. A microphone would have a diaphragm moving inside a coil with sound making the diaphragm move, the Schertler is more like a pickup with the top moving (vibrating) the pickup. The RM1 would not make any sound because the movement was not from the cover, but from the cone. If the pickup was on the cone it would have worked, of course the cone would have not worked well and may have been damaged, but it would have worked. I am still on my first cup of coffee so hoping this makes some kind of sense.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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    Registered User almeriastrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: i bought a Schertler contact mic, let me tell my intial thoug

    https://secure.schertler.com/en_IT/s...kups/dyn-m-p48

    The same principle as seen in (for example) the Blue Encore 200 vocal mic: a dynamic coil transducer with integrated FET buffer preamp.

    There is such a thing as a 'condenser' transducer: the AKG C411. This is a pre-polarised back electret design. I've found these to be very good, and they are not too expensive either...
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    Default Re: i bought a Schertler contact mic, let me tell my intial thoug

    I've owned a Schertler for several years, and used it in performance many many times. When i first got it on a deal with schertler, I noticed that they had actually sent me the G (for guitar) and not the M. I called Schertler about it, and they told me that it was the same Gizmo.

    Now that I've applied the green goop at least 200 times, I can say for a fact that it has no effect at all on a finish whether nitro or varnish.

    I have never felt entirely comfortable about that crazy thin hard-wired cable that connects the mic to a stage XLR. However, I've learned to live with it by, as someone else here has remarked, shoving a roll of the XLR cable into my pocket.

    In my opinion, the Schertler sound is as good as a good stage mic with the only disadvantage being that it seems a bit too cumbersome to void the mic's power on and off for tuning my mandolin. In contrast, it's a simple two-step backward movement to tune properly using a stage mic on a stand. To solve this Schertler tuning issue, I briefly experimented using an XLR transformer with a built-in on/off switch, but the hardware connection suddenly became a 10 inch long live-power-in-the-pocket nightmare on stage, so I threw it away.

    I suspect I could solve the Schertler tuning problem by adding some kind of an inline tuner stomp box to my connections. Unfortunately, such a device doesn't change the issue of the mic's thin, short cable still demanding to be connected to a standard XLR cable, which now leads to the stomp box, and then another XLR leading from the stomp box to the stage system. So many plugs seems a sure formula for adding noise. But maybe I'm over-reacting. Actually, I'd love to hear another opinion about this, and maybe even a recommendation for a silent, inexpensive, stomp box tuner that takes XLR both in and out. Even better, since I'm happy using a clip on tuner, I'd settle for an on/off XLR stomp box.
    Last edited by Jim Nollman; Jan-15-2018 at 4:21pm.
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    Default Re: i bought a Schertler contact mic, let me tell my intial thoug

    One might be able to rewire a pedal tuner to change the in/out jacks to TRS from TR ..

    XLR to TRS cords are pre made.. or just change 1 end of a Mic cable..

    rather than shorting signal return and ground together.. (which most impedance matching transformers do..)





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    Default Re: i bought a Schertler contact mic, let me tell my intial thoug

    As a follow up, ive now gigged the schertler twice.
    I love the sound.

    I love not having to stand so close to the instrument mic, as this has at times, constrained or interfered with how i play, a tad. When im singing, and playing, its one less thing to think about, ie leaning into the vocal mic, perhaps moving my body, and, keeping the mando close to its mic.


    It is, as jim writes, a bit inconvenient regarding needing either an easy to reach mute, or, rapid disconnect. I wish the cord had an on off button or slide, not too far down the cable. Would be nice for howling feedback situations too when the
    Sound guy is futzing or asleep.

    When i leave the stage, i do not like leaving my instrument, on a stand or otherwise.

    I wish an easy disconnect were available. I am using an additional five foot xlr section for this purpose, so that i can leave it attached to the main PA, and then grab the thin light schertler cord and exit. I imagine this is not an issue for orchestral players who remain seated, and, typically have a more secure playing area (as compared to certain stages).

    I wish the schertler had a secure, small, replaceable latching connector, at about 5-6 feet, with an on off switch, into a longer cable, for my purposes. I imagine others would find this useful. Perhaps a deal maker.

    I am happy, but, am also about to buy a baggs with a 1/4" carpenter face mount jack to try to address this, as i have a baggs di. Didnt realize just how convenient plugging in , and muting is, with other offerings.

    I too used an external phantom power supply, then out to xlr to 1/4" converter cable, to stomp box with mute and other controls....it works, but it a pain.

    Perhaps Schertler has or will create a solution.
    Best steve
    Last edited by stevedenver; Feb-13-2018 at 9:39am.

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    Default Re: i bought a Schertler contact mic, let me tell my intial thoug

    Steve, I found when using a Schertler that if I took the tone guard off (I don't know if you use one) that I had less problem with feedback. Keeping the back from vibrating against my body helped.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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    Default Re: i bought a Schertler contact mic, let me tell my intial thoug

    Quote Originally Posted by pops1 View Post
    Steve, I found when using a Schertler that if I took the tone guard off (I don't know if you use one) that I had less problem with feedback. Keeping the back from vibrating against my body helped.
    Thanks, again.
    As i posted above, i dont use a tone-guard.

    And, tone gaurd or not, feedback can happen.

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    Default Re: i bought a Schertler contact mic, let me tell my intial thoug

    Quote Originally Posted by stevedenver View Post
    Thanks, again.
    As i posted above, i dont use a tone-guard.

    And, tone gaurd or not, feedback can happen.
    Sorry, didn't read back, it just came up with your repost. I see now we already covered that. Feedback is one of the reasons I went to the K&K.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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    Registered User Rick Crenshaw's Avatar
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    Default Re: i bought a Schertler contact mic, let me tell my intial thoug

    Just noted this thread. Timely. I just gigged last night at a venue new to us. It is a great music venue but is obviously geared to instruments set up to go into a DI box or directly into their board. Fine, I have a K&K twin (with a carpenter jack - I don’t understand the hate on these?) that I plug into a K&K XLR Pre. So, it sounds like crap in the monitors but our groupies (BTIM wives) tell us it sounds fine in the room.
    As we gig along playing and singing just fine my mandolin starts quacking like a wire is loose or I’m banging the top over the p/u or something. Next song after that minimizes I start feeding back. I’ve done nothing that I’m aware of differently and I switched the cable out after the number so rule that out. A few songs later, back to normal. Overall, the gig was a great success for us and I don’t mean to overblow the problem, but I don’t want any future problems. So.. my questions:

    1. Is this most likely a problem caused by the sound crew/equipment?
    2. Is my set up inherently difficult for the sound guys used to rock bands?
    3. Is there some set up like a particular DYN-M or a change of PreAmps that might reduce this issue?
    4. Did my ToneGuard increase my chance of feedback with the K&K twin?

    Help a confused acoustic musician understand this mess. I got into this music to avoid all these wires and electricity. I reckon this is just growing pains for a band used to playing smaller venues.
    Rick in Memphis

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    Default Re: i bought a Schertler contact mic, let me tell my intial thoug

    The tone guard may have caused feedback, I found when I used a Schertler it would feed back sooner with it on. Also is your K&K glued in or taped? I have been using a K&K and get a good sound both main and monitor for years. I have it glued in and have had no problems over the last several years.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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    Registered User Rick Crenshaw's Avatar
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    Default Re: i bought a Schertler contact mic, let me tell my intial thoug

    My K&K is taped in. Maybe that’s a problem? I retaped it prior to the gig and it appears solidly placed. I thought about gluing it in, but I installed this myself (ergo the carpenter jack). Should I give more consideration to gluing it in?
    Rick in Memphis

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    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: i bought a Schertler contact mic, let me tell my intial thoug

    Neutrik makes a ring switch microphone cable end..Click image for larger version. 

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    Plugging the Schertler XLR into one , offers the signal mute, while tuning for example..

    Stuffing the plugged in pair in a pocket, means You only step on the mic cable,
    not the thin one that is the part of the external pickup ..




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    Last edited by mandroid; Feb-16-2018 at 2:28pm.
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    Default Re: i bought a Schertler contact mic, let me tell my intial thoug

    Generally attaching a pickup to the soundboard turns it into a wooden diaphragm microphone ,

    stage craft will get you placing yourself so that top does not 'hear' the monitors..
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  28. #24
    Registered User Rick Crenshaw's Avatar
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    Default Re: i bought a Schertler contact mic, let me tell my intial thoug

    Quote Originally Posted by mandroid View Post
    Generally attaching a pickup to the soundboard turns it into a wooden diaphragm microphone ,

    stage craft will get you placing yourself so that top does not 'hear' the monitors..
    Will going with IEM (in-ear monitors) eliminate this issue?
    Rick in Memphis

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    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: i bought a Schertler contact mic, let me tell my intial thoug

    I would think so, As long as you don't have a hard room with the back walls
    bouncing the mains back at you..


    Previously mentioned, a separate signal to the mains, (mic)

    and another notching out the frequencies that are prone to feedback .. [Pickup]

    was some player's ( Sam Bush's?) approach..
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